DNA analysis proves that Native Americans are not descendants of Israel

Reasons to agree: +

1. Genetic markers can accurately indicate the ethnic background and history of individual people. Scientist have checked the genetic markers of all living native Americans, non of which carry markers consistent with people from the middle east. Markers of Native Americans indicate that they are descendants of people anciently associated with the Altay Mountains area of central Asia.


2. A God that changes DNA to hide evidence of a book that we should listen to, is not a God of Truth. A God who lies is not worthy of worship, and would sease to be God

Reasons to disagree: -

1. God could have changed the DNA of native Americans to test the faith of Mormons.

Score:

# of reasons to agree: 21

# of reasons to disagree: -1

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0

Total Idea Score: 0

Books that agree:

1. Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church Simon G. Southerton

Interest of those who agree: +

1. Promoting their book (
   Simon G. Southerton)


2. Promoting the truth

Interest of those who disagree: -

1. Promoting their career (Apologist)


2. Promoting the truth

Common Interest

1. Promoting the truth

Opposing Interest

1.  Promoting the truth


2. Promoting the Church


3. Promoting gospel narratives that don't seem to contradict scientific based world views

Website that agree

1. http://simonsoutherton.blogspot.com/


2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics_and_the_Book_of_Mormon

Websites that disagree

1. Jeff Lindsay


2. http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/display/topical.php?cat_id=488

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Native American Indians are not descendants of Israel

Reasons to agree

1. DNA analysis proves that Native Americans are not descendants of Israel.

The Book of Mormon says that the Jews are the principal ancestors of the American Indians +1

Reasons to agree

1. The introduction to the Book of Mormon says: "Wherefore, it is an abridgment of the record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites--Written to the Lamanites, who are remnant of the house of Israel".

Score:

# of reasons to agree: 1

# of reasons to disagree: -0

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0

Total Idea Score: 1

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A man will get nearer to God by abiding by the Book of Mormon's precepts than by any other book -1

Reasons to agree: +0

1. 
   

Reasons to disagree: 1

1. The New Testament will get you closer to God than the Book of Mormon.
   

Score:

# of reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree: -1

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0

Total Idea Score: -1

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There are so many problems with the Book of Mormon that you should disregard spiritual feeling you think you have when reading it

Reasons to agree

1. Spiritual feelings, if no stronger than feelings you get when watching Pixar movies, should not over-rule logic. 


2. Real spiritual guidance should not be ignored, but most Mormons report no more than mild warm and fuzzies when reading the book of Mormon, but often squirm when reading some of the embarrassing parts of the book. Those feelings of embarrassment are just as valid as feelings of enlightenment.


3.  Of course, you should not disregard real spiritual answers, but you should be aware of confirmation bias, and ensure that spiritual guidance you receive is of a different nature than spiritual confirmation others receive to stay in their religions. 

Reasons to disagree

1. The Book of Mormon has many inspiring quotes. 


2. The Book of Mormon has many inspiring stories.

Score:

# of reasons to agree: 3

# of reasons to disagree: -2

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0

Total Idea Score: 1

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There are some aspects of the Book of Mormon that support a literal historical interpretation +0

Reasons to agree: +1

1. Latter-day Saint President John Taylor was right when he wrote: "Quetzalcoatl and Christ are the same being". The fact that south american cultures believed in a bearded white God named Quetzalcoatl supports the story in the Book of Mormon. 

Reasons to disagree: -1

1. The Bible has enough problems with historical accuracy. If you are going to come along and start a new religion, and say that God has placed his official stamp of approval on this new religion, with new scriptures, the new scriptures should have less problems than the old scriptures, which have been around a long time so that errors of mankind can slip into the things of God... However the Book of Mormon has more archaeological problems than the Bible. There is no city in the Book of Mormon, that you can say existed in then and still exists now... I know, I know, Mormons will say you can't compare the two because the people who lived in cities, and kept written records, according to the Book of Mormon, were all killed off at the end of the Book... But still... we have some archaeology from that time, and it does not compare well to the amount of archaeology that we have to support the rest of Christianity. Right? I'm not an expert, but that is my impression. Is there any way of quantifying this? 

Score:

# of reasons to agree: +1

# of reasons to disagree: -1

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: +0

# of reasons to agree with reasons to disagree: -0

Total Idea Score: +0

Scriptures that agree: +

Scriptures that disagree: -

Images That agree: +

Images That disagree: -



Valid Interest of those who agree: +

Valid Interest of those who disagree: -





Videos That agree: +

Videos That disagree: -





Website that agree: +

Websites that disagree: -

Podcast that agree: +

Podcast that disagree: -



Unbiased Experts who agree: +

Unbiased Experts who disagree: -



Books that Agree: +

Books that Agree: -

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Common Interest:

Opposing Interest:



Related arguments:

Book of Mormon anachronistic do not prove the Book of Mormon is false.

Reasons to agree:

1. Someone on the other side perhaps Nephi in a ‘postmortem’ state provided the anachronistic Isaiah material.” (I'm not sure I follow this line of thought. It it assuming that this person provided a more accurate version of Isiah? I'm not sure how getting help from an Angel would explain problems with Isaiah in 2nd Nephi any differently than getting the translation from the Urim and Thummim.

2. Jesus could have intentionally communicated the Isaiah anachronisms to Mormon and Moroni.

The Book of Mormon mentions several animals, plants, and technologies for which there is currently no evidence in pre-Columbian history +7

Reasons to agree: +7

1. The Book of Mormon claims that Ancient Americans had Silk, which there is no evidence to support. I don't even think the silk worm lived in North or South America. (Ether 9:17: "Having all manner of fruit, and of grain, and of silks, and of fine linen, and of gold, and of silver, and of precious things."


2. The Book of Mormon claims that Ancient Americans had Linen, which there is no evidence to support. (Ether 9:17: "Having all manner of fruit, and of grain, and of silks, and of fine linen, and of gold, and of silver, and of precious things."


3. The Book of Mormon claims that Ancient Americans had cattle, which there is no evidence to support.  (Ether 9:18: "And also all manner of cattle, of oxen, and cows, and of sheep, and of swine, and of goats, and also many other kinds of animals which were useful for the food of man."


4. The Book of Mormon claims that Ancient Americans had Oxen, which there is no evidence to support.  (Ether 9:18: "And also all manner of cattle, of oxen, and cows, and of sheep, and of swine, and of goats, and also many other kinds of animals which were useful for the food of man."


5. The Book of Mormon claims that Ancient Americans had horses, which there is no evidence to support.  (Ether 9:19: "And they also had horses, and asses, and there were elephants and cureloms and cumoms; all of which were useful unto man, and more especially the elephants and cureloms and cumoms.."


6. The Book of Mormon claims that Ancient Americans had asses, which there is no evidence to support.  (Ether 9:19: "And they also had horses, and asses, and there were elephants and cureloms and cumoms; all of which were useful unto man, and more especially the elephants and cureloms and cumoms.."


7. The Book of Mormon claims that Ancient Americans had sheep, swine, goats, elephants wheat barley, figs, grapes, silk, steel, bellows, brass, breast plates, chains, iron working, plows, swords, scimitars, and chariots. The Smithsonian Institution has stated that "none of the principal food plants and domestic animals of the Old World (except the dog) were present in the New World before Columbus."

Score:

# of reasons to agree: +7

# of reasons to disagree: -0

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0

Total Idea Score: 7

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Images That agree

Website that agree

1. 
   
   

Websites that disagree

1. 
   

The Book of Mormon says that the Jews are the "principal ancestors of the American Indians", but they were not +3

Reasons to agree

1. DNA proves that Native Americans were not primarily descendant from Jews, as the Book of Mormon says they were. 


2. God wouldn't purposely change the DNA of Native Americans just to make us require faith to be a Mormon. 


3. God wouldn't purposely hide evidence of himself, in order to make us need faith to believe in him. 

Reasons to disagree

1.   

Videos That agree

Videos That disagree

Scriptures that agree

1. 
   

Scriptures that disagree

1. 
   

Score:

# of reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree: -0

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to agree with reasons to disagree: -0

Total Idea Score: 0

Images That agree

Images That disagree



Interest of those who agree

Interest of those who disagree



Common Interest

Opposing Interest



Website that agree

Websites that disagree



Related arguments:



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The Book of Mormon is True -9

Background Context and Assumptions

By true I mean that it really was somewhat inspired by God. That the stories in the Book of Mormon happened pretty much the way they are written, except if Joseph Smith made some of it up, if he was having a bad day, but in general most of it is true.



As you see, I am trying to present both sides, and go where the algorithm takes me, but don't tell me that everything in the Bible is 100% true, and non contradictory. Were there two angels or 3 at the Tomb? Which version of Jesus's ancestry was accurate? What about all the other differences between the Gosples. There are hundreds if not Thousands.



No one on this planet who is smart accepts that every single word in the Book of Mormon or Bible are 100% accurate.



Reasons to agree (that the Book of Mormon is "true"): +5

1. It is acceptable to define true as inspiring.+0 If you define true as inspiring, you can say the Book of Mormon is true. 


2. The theory that the Book of Mormon is an ancient American history is deemed to fall outside the pale of academic credibility. 


3. If you ask God if the Book of Mormon is true, and you are righteous, he will tell you that it is by giving you a comforting warm feeling.  


4. A man will get nearer to God by abiding by the Book of Mormon's precepts than by any other book.

Reasons to disagree: -5

1. The book of Mormon contains too many 19th century points of view to be what it claims to be: an ancient text. 


2. There are too many historical problems with the book of Mormon to say that it is "true". -11


3. The Book of Mormon has so many problems with it, that personal belief that God told that it is true must be inaccurate. 


4. A warm and fuzzy feeling when reading or praying about the Book of Mormon should not be taken as evidence of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon unless individually you have weighed the problems of the historicity of the book. 


5. There are not enough inspiring stories in the Book of Mormon to think that God would go to all the problem of bringing it forward. 

Score:

# of reasons to agree: 4

# of reasons to disagree: -5

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: +2

# of reasons to agree with reasons to disagree: -11

Total Idea Score: -10

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Reasons to agree

1. The Book of Mormon is True, and so the LDS church is true. 


2. Joseph Smith was inspired, and so the LDS church is true. 


3. Joseph smith's motivations were pure


4. If you say that Joseph Smith was evil, then you have to say that many of the Popes were evil

Reasons to disagree

1. LDS Church leaders have made too many contradicting statements for the Church to be true. 


2. LDS leaders claim to have God's authority when they tell people what to do, however they claim they never said they were infallible when they want to change their minds


3. Joseph Smith lied about the Book of Abraham

Images That agree

Images That disagree

1. 
   
   

Scriptures that agree

1. 
   
   

Scriptures that disagree

Interest of those who agree

1. 
   
   

Interest of those who disagree

Common Interest

1. 
   
   

Opposing Interest

Videos That agree

Videos That disagree

Website that agree

1. 
   
   

Websites that disagree

1. 
   
   

Score:

# of reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree: -0

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0

Total Idea Score: 0

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The Book of Mormon says that God told Nephi to kill Laban and everything in the Book of Mormon is true

Reasons to agree

1. 
   
   

Reasons to disagree

1.  Even the book of Mormon itself, acknowledges that it has mistakes. 


2. Joseph Smith altered the text of the Book of Mormon, indicating that the translation process was not an exact science. 

Score:

# of reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree: -0

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0

Total Idea Score: 0

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God told Nephi to kill Laban

Reasons to agree

1. The Book of Mormon says that God told Nephi to kill Laban and everything in the Book of Mormon is true. 

Reasons to disagree

1. Nephi is a fictitious character. 


2. The story of Nephi could be real, but Nephi could have just rationalized his actions. 


3. God is Love, and would not tell someone to kill someone else. 

Score:

# of reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree: -0

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0

Total Idea Score: 0

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