There are many problems with the LDS story of the first vision

Reasons to agree

1. The fact that the different versions of the vision include different visitations indicates that the story is not true


2. In 1828, eight years after he supposedly had been told by God himself to join no church, Smith applied for membership in a local Methodist church. Other members of his family had joined the Presbyterians

Reasons to disagree

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Scriptures that disagree

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Interest of those who agree

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Common Interest

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Opposing Interest

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Score:

# of reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree: -0

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0

Total Idea Score: 0

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The fact that the different versions of the vision include different visitations indicates that the story is not true

Reasons to agree

1. The 1832 version of the story says that only one personage, Jesus Christ, appeared to him. The 1838 version of the story says that God and Jesus Christ appeared to him. Still a third version of this event is recorded as a recollection in Smith's diary, fifteen years after the alleged vision, where one unidentified "personage" appeared, then another, with a message implying that neither was the Son. They were accompanied by many "angels," which are not mentioned in the official version you have been told about

Reasons to disagree

1. By this logic the Bible can not be true. 


2. Perhaps all the things happened but he only mentioned part of them in each writing. 

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Scriptures that disagree

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Opposing Interest

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Videos That agree

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Score:

# of reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree: -0

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0

Total Idea Score: 0

Don't like the score? It is easy to change the score. Just post a reason to agree or disagree with the overall idea, or any of the reasons and the score will change

Joseph Smith written explanations of the 1st visions contain significant contradiction

Reasons to agree

1. The fact that the different versions of the vision include different visitations indicates that the story is not true.


2. The 1832 version of the story says that only one personage, Jesus Christ, appeared to him.


3. The 1838 version of the story says that God and Jesus Christ appeared to him.

Reasons to disagree

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Scriptures that disagree

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Interest of those who disagree

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Common Interest

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Opposing Interest

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Videos That agree

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Images That agree

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Images that disagree:

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Score:

# of reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree: -0

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0

Total Idea Score: 0

Don't like the score? It is easy to change the score. Just post a reason to agree or disagree with the overall idea, or any of the reasons and the score will change

Joseph Smith's contradicted stories of the 1st vision should lead us to question his accuracy

Reasons to agree

1. Joseph Smith written explanations of the 1st visions contain significant contradictions. 

Reasons to disagree

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Scriptures that disagree

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Common Interest

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Opposing Interest

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Videos That agree

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Images That agree

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Score:

# of reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree: -0

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0

Total Idea Score: 0

Don't like the score? It is easy to change the score. Just post a reason to agree or disagree with the overall idea, or any of the reasons and the score will change

Joseph Smith written explanations of the 1st visions contain significant contradictions

Reasons to agree

1. The official 

Reasons to disagree

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Scriptures that agree

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Scriptures that disagree

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Opposing Interest

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Videos That agree

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Images That agree

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Score:

# of reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree: -0

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0

Total Idea Score: 0

Don't like the score? It is easy to change the score. Just post a reason to agree or disagree with the overall idea, or any of the reasons and the score will change

Joseph Smith did not really see God and Jesus Christ in the "Sacred Grove"

Reasons to agree

1. Joseph Smith's contradicted stories of the 1st vision should lead us to question his accuracy. 


2. If Joseph Smith really had seen God and Jesus Christ he would have written about it sooner than 1832, 11 years after its alleged occurrence.

Reasons to disagree

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Scriptures that disagree

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Common Interest

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Opposing Interest

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Videos That agree

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Images That agree

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Score:

# of reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree: -0

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0

Total Idea Score: 0

Don't like the score? It is easy to change the score. Just post a reason to agree or disagree with the overall idea, or any of the reasons and the score will change

(+3) The LDS church should stop having missionaries knock on random doors.

Reasons to agree

1. The Church would get more converts by doing service than knocking on people's doors. 


2. Knocking on people's doors is annoying


3. Knocking on people's doors makes more enemies than friends.


4. I know, I know... the kids have to go on missions, because Jesus told them to go, and if they go on missions they have to have things to do to keep them busy, but when they are not teaching, they should be doing service. 

Reasons to disagree

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Interest of those who agree

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Score:

# of reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree: -0

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0

Total Idea Score: 0

Don't like the score? It is easy to change the score. Just post a reason to agree or disagree with the overall idea, or any of the reasons and the score will change

The lds church should stop proselytizing missions and just do service missions

Reasons to agree

1. Proselytizing missions are not working any more. 


2. Pure religion, is helping others. 


3. Missionaries could still baptize, but they wouldn't proselytizing . 

Reasons to disagree

1.  It wouldn't work. The book of Mormon doesn't have Christ setting up service missions when he visited the Americas in 3rd Nephi: he told them to go and baptize. 

Scriptures that agree

1. By this shall men know ye are my disciples, if you have love one for another.

Scriptures that disagree

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Score:

# of reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree: -0

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0

Total Idea Score: 0

Don't like the score? It is easy to change the score. Just post a reason to agree or disagree with the overall idea, or any of the reasons and the score will change

All things are done by common consent in the LDS church

Reasons to agree

1. The church has to vote to have things included as doctrine. ie the 1979 addition to the D&C about the black and the preisthood.

Reasons to disagree

1.  The brothern tell us how things are, and we either have to do it or leave. 


2. When I hear the words "by common consent" I think of everyone voting. Nothing like this has ever happened in the Church. 


3. One or two "votes" in a period of 150 years of history of the Church History doesn't qualify for "ALL things being done by common consent". The Church really could do all things by common consent, now that we have the internet. Should we have built the new mall in salt lake? Should women get the priesthood? Should Bishops have to have a degree in theology? Should we have gay marriage? Does anyone know if the website "by common consent" actually advocates restructuring the way decisions are made, or do they just want individuals to pay more attention to the wise decisions of our superiors? 

Scriptures that agree

1. all things shall be done by common consent in the church, by much prayer and faith, for all things you shall receive by faith.

Scriptures that disagree

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Score:

# of reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree: -0

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0

Total Idea Score: 0

Don't like the score? It is easy to change the score. Just post a reason to agree or disagree with the overall idea, or any of the reasons and the score will change

All things shall be done by common consent in the church

Reasons to agree

1. The raising of the right hand, as done in the LDS church, does not result in a church being led by common consent. 

Reasons to disagree

1.  It would be impractical to allow everyone to vote.


2. It is better to just have common consent among the 12


3. We have common consent, when everyone raises their right hand

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Scriptures that disagree

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Score:

# of reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree: -0

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0

Total Idea Score: 0

Don't like the score? It is easy to change the score. Just post a reason to agree or disagree with the overall idea, or any of the reasons and the score will change

Doubting and questioning is a factor of personality not intelligence or righteousness

Reasons to agree

1. There are smart people inside and outside of every church. 


2. Doubting and questioning is a factor of integrity, or the ability to tell yourself that you won't push down and ignore doubt. 

Reasons to disagree

1.  Some stories are not logical. It takes some intelligence to see error in logic. 


2. Stupid people are more easily led. 

Scriptures that agree

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Scriptures that disagree

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Interest of those who agree

1. Wanting to think they are smart even though they believe. 

Interest of those who disagree

1. Wanting to think they are smart because they doubt. 

Common Interest

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Opposing Interest

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Score:

# of reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree: -0

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0

Total Idea Score: 0

Don't like the score? It is easy to change the score. Just post a reason to agree or disagree with the overall idea, or any of the reasons and the score will change