It is pretty messed up for Obama to have voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions

Reasons to agree:

1. This bill deals with how young girls are being secretly taken across State lines for the purpose of abortion, without the consent of their parents or even the knowledge of their parents, in violation of the laws of the State in which they live. 45 states have enacted some sort of parental consent laws or parental notification law. By simply secreting a child across State lines, one can frustrate the State legislature's rules. It is subverting and defeating valid, constitutionally approved rights parents have.


2. Getting pregnant takes a series of choices. If you get pregnant, and you are a child, you are not providing for your own food, or shelter, if you get these things from your parents, these parents who are providing for you, and you live in a state that requires their knowledge of an abortion, it should be wrong for someone who is not caring for the pregnant child, for someone who is not providing food, shelter, to take these children, and assume they know what is better for someone whom they haven't raised from when they were children, and perform an abortion on them without even telling their parents.

This is very difficult stuff to discuss, and I think I could make people hate me for bringing up either side, but I want to word stuff better, and need your help in explaining both sides.

Webpages that agree:

1. http://www.moralaccountability.com/obama-on-abortion/

This bill prohibits taking minors across State lines in circumvention of laws requiring the involvement of parents in abortion decisions (how messed-up is it that you can take someone else's kids across state lines to get an abortion, so you can BREAK the law, and it is not against the law?). Makes an exception for an abortion necessary to save the life of the minor. Authorizes any parent to sue unless such parent committed an act of incest with the minor. Imposes a fine and/or prison term of up to one year on a physician who performs an abortion on an out-of-state minor in violation of parental notification requirements in their home state.

Interest of those who agree (that Obama is wrong):

1. Promoting the Republican Party by attacking a democrat.
   
2. The desire to criticize something that a minority has said, no matter if it is right or not. Racisms. Attacking a minority because he is a minority.
3. Making themselves feel better about decisions they might have made.
4. Protecting the rights of parents.
5. Limiting the rights of the government to do bad.

Interest of those who disagree (that Obama is wrong):

1. Promoting the Democratic Party by defending a democrat.
   
2. The desire to defend something that a minority has said, no matter if it is right or not. Liberal guilt (defending a minority because he is a minority)
3. Making themselves feel better about decisions they might have made.
4. Weakening the rights of parents.
5. Expanding the rights of the government to do good.

Obama is wrong on abortion, but takes a good approach

 

Reasons to agree:

1. [An abortion protester at a campaign event] handed me a pamphlet. “Mr. Obama, I know you’re a Christian, with a family of your own. So how can you support murdering babies?”
   I told him I understood his position but had to disagree with it. I explained my belief that few women made the decision to terminate a pregnancy casually; that any pregnant woman felt the full force of the moral issues involved when making that decision; that I feared a ban on abortion would force women to seek unsafe abortions, as they had once done in this country. I suggested that perhaps we could agree on ways to reduce the number of women who felt the need to have abortions in the first place.
   “I will pray for you,” the protester said. “I pray that you have a change of heart.” Neither my mind nor my heart changed that day, nor did they in the days to come. But that night, before I went to bed, I said a prayer of my own-that I might extend the same presumption of good faith to others that had been extended to me.
   Source: The Audacity of Hope, by Barack Obama, p.197-8 Oct 1, 2006
2. Obama is right to reach across the isle for common ground on abortion
3. Obama was wrong to have voted against the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act
4. Obama is wrong on embryonic stem cell research

Webpages that agree:

1. http://www.moralaccountability.com/obama-on-abortion/

Obama is right to reach across the isle for common ground on abortion

 Reasons to agree:

1. Obama said, "...there surely is some common ground when both those who believe in choice and those who are opposed to abortion can come together and say, 'We should try to prevent unintended pregnancies by providing appropriate education to our youth, communicating that sexuality is sacred and that they should not be engaged in cavalier activity, and providing options for adoption, and helping single mothers if they want to choose to keep the baby'. Those are all things that we put in the Democratic platform for the first time this year, and I think that's where we can find some common ground, because nobody's pro-abortion. I think it's always a tragic situation. We should try to reduce these circumstances."
2. Sometimes it seems like some pro-life republicans don't really care about life, but they care about using life as a wedge issue to get themselves elected. For instance they keep sending up all these bills that don't have any provisions for rape, or the parents life. They don't reach out for compromise. They take an absolute position, and demand their way or nothing. It is better to agree on those things that we agree on, and then make arguments to go further... Even though I disagree with Obama on many life issues, I greatly appreciate the respect that he shows my side, and his willingness to move forward on such things as restricting late term abortions.
3. [An abortion protester at a campaign event] handed me a pamphlet. “Mr. Obama, I know you’re a Christian, with a family of your own. So how can you support murdering babies?” I told him I understood his position but had to disagree with it. I explained my belief that few women made the decision to terminate a pregnancy casually; that any pregnant woman felt the full force of the moral issues involved when making that decision; that I feared a ban on abortion would force women to seek unsafe abortions, as they had once done in this country. I suggested that perhaps we could agree on ways to reduce the number of women who felt the need to have abortions in the first place. “I will pray for you,” the protester said. “I pray that you have a change of heart.” Neither my mind nor my heart changed that day, nor did they in the days to come. But that night, before I went to bed, I said a prayer of my own-that I might extend the same presumption of good faith to others that had been extended to me. Source: The Audacity of Hope, by Barack Obama, p.197-8 Oct 1, 2006

Reasons to agree:

1. In 2005 there were 1.2 million abortions performed (The Guttmacher Institute). That is 1.2 million hearts that were stoped because of 1.2 million brains being sucked out. When 1.2 million brains are sucked out of 1.2 million skulls, there is no room for compromise.

Webpages that agree:

1. http://www.moralaccountability.com/obama-on-abortion/

Obama was wrong to have voted against the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act

Reasons to agree:

1. A baby that is born is no longer a fetus, it is a baby. It is wrong to kill babies. It is especially wrong to kill babies when the baby no longer requires his or her mother to provide life. Once a baby is born, it no longer requires it's mother and could be given up for adoption. We can agree to disagree on abortions during the first few months, but partial-birth abortion is the way that lawyers, like Obama, allow a mother to kill a baby, before the feet come all the way out. By leaving the baby partially inside the mother, lawyers will say that it is not a baby. This is disgusting, and is an example of why people should specifically hate Obama, and lawyers in general.
2. Obama said that he would have supported the act, if it provided for exceptions to the mother's life. This is a lie. John K. Wilson, an Obama Supporter said; "Although these bills included an exception to save the life of the mother, they didn’t include anything about abortions necessary to protect the health of the mother. The legislation defined a fetus as a person, & could have criminalized virtually all abortion." This is a straw man argument. The bill would not have criminalized virtually all abortions. This is a bold-faced lie. John K. Wilson is making a slippery slope argument, saying that if a fetus is truly defined as a person, then some day other people could use that definition to write another law that outlawed virtually all abortions. However, the bill that Obama voted against only had anything to do with partial-birth abortions, and it is a scare tactics and lies to say that it had anything to do with anything else.
3. An "On the Issues" article says, "In 1997, Obama voted against SB 230, which would have turned doctors into felons by banning so-called partial-birth abortion". This uses very misleading wording. It says the bill would have "turned doctors into felons". This is stupid. The bill would have made it a felony in Illinois to perform "so-called" partial-birth abortions. First of all, the guy, John K. Wilson, p.147-148, uses the words "so called" partial-birth abortions, as though it is inaccurate. What happens in a partial birth abortion is the woman goes through labor, and the baby comes partly out of the womb. The baby is then killed, while the baby has been partially born. The baby is killed before it comes all the way out, because if the baby was born all the way, it would be illegal to kill it. So I don't know what John K. Wilson is complaining about by calling it "so-called" partial birth abortion, but yes the bill would have made those doctors who committed felonies, into felons. But it is not like doctors would not know that partial birth abortions were illegal. It’s not like we would surprise them, or trick them. The wording is stupid. If you made a law that said doctors can’t juggle babies, that would also turn doctors into felons. But only those doctors who ignored the law and continued their baby juggling ways.
4. Obama says that we should trust women to make own decisions on partial-birth abortion. Weather you believe partial-birth abortion is right or wrong, you can’t use that sort of logic. Obama is too smart to have used this kind of argument without knowing how stupid it is. He knows that it is a sham, but he uses this sort of logic, because stupid people agree with him. That sort of logic is exactly like saying, that we should trust men to make their own decisions about tax evasion. When you start something with the words, “Lets trust women to make their own decisions”, you are ½ the way to convincing stupid people, and you get to avoid making any decisions about something being right or wrong yourself. Q: What us your view on the decision on partial-birth abortion and your reaction to most of the public agreeing with the court’s holding? A: I think that most Americans recognize that this is a profoundly difficult issue for the women and families (and politicians) who make these decisions. They don’t make them casually (no one makes them casually? A lot of teen boys don't use condoms because they don't like the way they feel. A lot of teen age girls don't force their boyfrinds to use condoms because they don't want to make them mad. A lot of people make life decisions very casually. 1.2 million abortions in 2005. A lot of those were decisions made casually). And I trust women to make these decisions in conjunction with their doctors and their families and their clergy (yes, withing the first months of pregancy, but partial birth abortions are full term). And I think that’s where most Americans are. Now, when you describe a specific procedure that accounts for less than 1% of the abortions that take place, then naturally, people get concerned, and I think legitimately so (so we should legalize aeverything that is rare? I could make ridiculus examples, like canabalsm, to make a point, but then people would say that I'm crazy, or that I'm comparing the two. No. I'm attacking the logic. We shouldn't legalize everything that is rare). But the broader issue here is: Do women have the right to make these profoundly difficult decisions (no the broader issue is you were asked about partial birth abortion, and your trying to change the subject)? And I trust them to do it (so I'm not going to answer the question). There is a broader issue: Can we move past some of the debates around which we disagree (not if you don't answer the questions honestly) and can we start talking about the things we do agree on (oh my gosh, oh my gosh! Can you stop asking me difficult questions)? Reducing teen pregnancy; making it less likely for women to find themselves in these circumstances (just because Obama wants to ignore this practice doesn't make it go away. Ignoring it will allow it to keep happening). Source: 2007 South Carolina Democratic primary debate, on MSNBC Apr 26, 2007

Reasons to disagree:

1. Obama said that he would have supported the act, if it provided for exceptions to the mother's life. He said; "On an issue like partial birth abortion, I strongly believe that the state can properly restrict late-term abortions. I have said so repeatedly. All I've said is we should have a provision to protect the health of the mother, and many of the bills that came before me didn't have that." http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Barack_Obama_Abortion.htm

Webpages that agree:

1. http://www.moralaccountability.com/obama-on-abortion/
   

Interest of those who agree (that Obama is wrong):

1. Promoting the Republican Party by attacking a democrat.
   
2. Racism (critisizing a minority because he is a minority)
3. Making themselves feel better about decisions they might have made.

Interest of those who disagree (that Obama is wrong):

1. Promoting the Democratic Party by defending a democrat.
   
2. Liberal guilt (defending a minority because he is a minority)
3. Making themselves feel better about decisions they might have made.
   

Obama is wrong on embryonic stem cell research

Obama is wrong on embryonic stem cell research.

Reasons to agree:

1. Obama supports embryonic stem cell research and was a co-sponsor of the 2005 Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act. (Statement of Support for Stem Cell Research, Barack Obama, U.S. Senator for Illinois). The government should not take money from people, and use it on things they consider to be murder.

Webpages that agree:

1. http://www.moralaccountability.com/obama

Obama is wrong on abortion.

Reasons to agree:

1. Obama had a 100 percent rating from the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council for his support of abortion rights, family planning services and health insurance coverage for female contraceptives.
2. Obama voted against requiring medical care for aborted fetuses who survive.
3. Obama was wrong to have voted against the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act
4. Obama is wrong on embryonic stem cell research
5. Obama voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. That was bad.
6. It is pretty messed up for Obama to have voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions.
7. Abortion is wrong.

Reasons to disagree:

1. OBAMA: If it sounds incredible that I would vote to withhold lifesaving treatment from an infant, that’s because it’s not true. There was a bill that said you have to provide lifesaving treatment. The fact is that there was already a law on the books in Illinois that required providing lifesaving treatment, which is why not only myself but pro-choice Republicans and Democrats voted against it. With respect to partial-birth abortion, I am completely supportive of a ban on late-term abortions, as long as there’s an exception for the mother’s health and life, and this bill did not contain that exception
2. Obama is right to reach across the isle for common ground on abortion.
3. People don't care what Obama believes. Issues don't matter with Obama. People like Obama because he is different. but Change for change sake does not solve problems.

One vote that especially riled abortion opponents involved restrictions on a type of abortion where the fetus sometimes survives, occasionally for hours. The restrictions, which never became law, included requiring the presence of a second doctor to care for the fetus.

Abortion opponents see Obama's vote on medical care for aborted fetuses as a refusal to protect the helpless. Some have even accused him of supporting infanticide.

Obama — who joined several other Democrats in voting "present" in 2001 and "no" the next year — argued the legislation was worded in a way that unconstitutionally threatened a woman's right to abortion by defining the fetus as a child.

"It would essentially bar abortions because the equal protection clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this was a child then this would be an anti-abortion statute,"Obama said in the Senate's debate in March 2001.