It is acceptable to define true as inspiring +0




  1. Mat 7:15  ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Mt. 12.33

  2. If you believe the Book of Mormon is a standard of truth than Moroni 7:17 supports this idea. It says: "But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil..." With this logic anything that persuadeth someone not to "serve" God is of the devil. This is very black and white logic, but it says that things that are true, can also be of the devil, depending on what they cause to happen in people's lives. This results in problems...







  1.  Some things are real some things are not. Some things really happened and some things did not. We can't fix our problems if we are not living in the real world.

  2. At some point you have to stop believing in Santa, even if a literal belief in Santa might result in "Good". 











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    Saying there are Old Testament scriptures that support something is meaningless, because so many Old Scriptures contradict each other



    1. Gen.1:27 says that man was created equal, male and female, however Gen.2:18-24 says that woman was created as a companion to the man only after he rejected the animals (Gen.1:27: “God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.”  Gen.2:18-24:  "And the LORD God said, [It is] not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought [them] unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that [was] the name thereof. And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This [is] now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.”

    2. Gen.1:12, 26 says that Man was created after the plants, however Gen.2:5-9 says that Man was created before the plants. (Gen.1:12, 26: “And the earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [was] in itself, after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.” Gen.2:5-9: “Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the LORD God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. ¶ But a [fn]mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole [fn]surface of the ground. ¶ Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living [fn]being. ¶The LORD God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed. ¶ Out of the ground the LORD God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.”

    3. Gen 1:3-5 says that God created and separated light and darkness on the first day. However, Gen 1:14-18 says that God created and separated light and darkness on the fourth day. (Gen 1:3-5: “Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. ¶ God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. ¶ God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.” Gen 1:14-18 says: “Then God said, "Let there be [fn]lights in the [fn]expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; ¶ and let them be for [fn]lights in the [fn]expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so. ¶ God made the two [fn]great lights, the greater [fn]light [fn]to govern the day, and the lesser [fn]light [fn]to govern the night; He made the stars also. ¶ God placed them in the [fn]expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, ¶ and [fn]to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. ¶There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day."

    4. Prov 15:3, Jer 16:17,and Jer 23:24 all say that God is everywhere and sees everything. However in Gen.4:9 God asks Cain the whereabouts of his brother, and in Gen 18:20, 21 God goes to see what is happening.

    5. Gen 10:5, 20, 31 says there were many languages before the tower at Babel. However, Gen.11:1 says there was only one language before the tower at Babel.








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      Saying the Old Testament "support something" is meaningless, because so many Old Scriptures contradict each other

      1. Gen.1:27 says that man was created equal, male and female, however Gen.2:18-24 says that woman was created as a companion to the man only after he rejected the animals.

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        God could have changed the DNA of native Americans to test the faith of Mormons




        1. God would not test our faith with designed implausibility



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          DNA analysis proves that Native Americans are not descendants of Israel





          1. Genetic markers can accurately indicate the ethnic background and history of individual people. Scientist have checked the genetic markers of all living native Americans, non of which carry markers consistent with people from the middle east. Markers of Native Americans indicate that they are descendants of people anciently associated with the Altay Mountains area of central Asia.

          2. A God that changes DNA to hide evidence of a book that we should listen to, is not a God of Truth. A God who lies is not worthy of worship, and would sease to be God






          1. God could have changed the DNA of native Americans to test the faith of Mormons.






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          1. Promoting their book (
            Simon G. Southerton)

          2. Promoting the truth







          1. Promoting their career (Apologist)

          2. Promoting the truth




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          1. Promoting the truth





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          1.  Promoting the truth

          2. Promoting the Church

          3. Promoting gospel narratives that don't seem to contradict scientific based world views






























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          Native American Indians are not descendants of Israel


          The Book of Mormon says that the Jews are the principal ancestors of the American Indians +1




          1. The introduction to the Book of Mormon says: "Wherefore, it is an abridgment of the record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites--Written to the Lamanites, who are remnant of the house of Israel".










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          It is Chauvinistic to tell women that their place is in the home as Moms


          Reasons to agree:




          1. If it is a woman telling another woman that being a stay at home mom was better than they expected, from her personal experience, it could be OK. But trying to make a blanket statement that you try applying to all women, devalues them as individuals (at least the ones that don't want to fit that mold).




          A man will get nearer to God by abiding by the Book of Mormon's precepts than by any other book -1










          1. The New Testament will get you closer to God than the Book of Mormon.


























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            D&C 132 is pretty terrible +3













            D&C 132 is the section of D&C (Mormon Scripture) that Joseph Smith explains the doctrine of Poligamy. Here is the whole thing, but it gets bad here:



            50Behold, I have seen your asacrifices, and will forgive all your sins; I have seen your bsacrifices in obedience to that which I have told you. Go, therefore, and I make a way for your escape, as Icaccepted the offering of Abraham of his son Isaac.


            Commentary: When he says "sins" remember that this revelation was given in 1843. In 1838  Oliver Cowdery wrote a letter claiming that Smith had an Affair with Fanny Alger. At least this seems to indicate that Oliver was still a descent guy, which seems weird. Some people claim that he was collaborating with Joseph Smith, and that the two of them made the whole thing up... 


             51Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.


            These are some weird mind games that Joseph Smith keeps playing with people.... But what was he talking about. 


             52And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.


            This is talking about extra wives. How dare he talk about "virtue" and "purity" when he was marrying other men's wives, while they were still married. 



             53For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.





            The crazy thing is that Joseph Smith got smart, good people to follow him. 



             54And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.




            Here Joseph threatens Emma that if she does not let Joseph have multiple wives, that she will be destroyed. Oh, I mean the Lord threatened her... yeah, that's right.


             55But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold (of wives?) in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives (yep wives!) and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.


             56And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, (I wish I had the Lord around to threaten my wife to forgive me, so that she could be forgiven her trespasses) wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart tobrejoice.


             57And again, I say, let not my servant Joseph put his property out of his hands, lest an enemy come and destroy him; for aSatanseeketh to destroy; for I am the Lord thy God, and he is my servant; and behold, and lo, I am with him, as I was with Abraham, thy father, even unto his cexaltation and glory.


             58Now, as touching the law of the apriesthood, there are many things pertaining thereunto.


             59Verily, if a man be called of my Father, as was aAaron, by mine own voice, and by the voice of him that bsent me, and I have endowed him with the ckeys of the power of this priesthood, if he do anything in my name, and according to my law and by my word, he will not commit dsin, and I will justify him.


             60Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God.



             61And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.




            (Except Joseph married women that were already married to other men!)


             62And if he have aten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.


             63But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to amultiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be bglorified.


             64And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.


             65Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take aHagar to wife.


             66And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present. Behold, I am Alpha and Omega. Amen.