Distinguishing between personal psychological needs and divine inspiration can be challenging or even impossible.

Alternative ways of saying the same thing:
  1. "It's hard to distinguish personal needs from spiritual experiences."
  2. "Divine feelings might be influenced by personal psychology."

Objective Criteria for Assessing the Validity of this Belief:
  1. Comparative studies of religious experiences, studies on the psychology of belief, personal testimonies.
Unstated assumptions:
Agreement
  1. Assumes psychological factors can explain all spiritual experiences.
Disagreement
  1. Divine experiences are outside of the realm of psychological explanation.


Reasons to agree: +1


  1. People who were raised in the church are going to have good feelings when thinking about staying in the church their parents friends, and family are in. These feelings naturally arise from friends, family, and tradition; independently of the truthfulness of the church. When you add in the confirmation bias, fear of change, and a desire to have answers and purpose in life, it is a wonder that anyone ever leaves. 
  2. +2: Cognitive psychologists argue that emotions and personal needs often influence our beliefs and perceptions, including religious experiences.


Reasons to disagree: -1


  1. Some people (my Grandma included) say they have visions having to do with genealogy, temple work, etc. Many (or some) of these people are good normal, sane, god loving people. Many of the people who joined the church seem to have more than just a small burning in the bosom that can be easily explained by the confirmation bias... And then it can all come back to emotional choice of who you more self identify with...  Who you think is "your" people 
  2. Many religious individuals report experiences that they believe are beyond psychological explanation, such as visions, prophecies, and profound feelings of peace or certainty.





Scriptures that agree: +

  1. In the Bible, 1 Thessalonians 5:21 advises, "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." This could be interpreted as an encouragement to think critically and discern truth.

  2. In the Quran, Surah Al-Baqarah (2:256) says, "There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong." This suggests an emphasis on personal discernment and understanding.

  3. Galations 5:22



Scriptures that disagree: -

  1. In the Bible, 1 Corinthians 2:14 states, "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." This suggests that spiritual truths may transcend human logic and understanding and can only be discerned through spiritual means.

  2. In the Bhagavad Gita (10:11), Krishna says, "Out of compassion for them, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance." This implies that divine intervention can directly impact human understanding, going beyond personal psychological needs.




Videos That agree: +
  1. "The Invention of Lying" explores a world where religion is presented as a psychological comfort.
  2. "A Beautiful Mind" (2001) - This movie emphasizes the power of reason and intellect, as it follows the life of John Nash, a brilliant mathematician who struggles with schizophrenia.
  3. "Inception" (2010) - In this film, the characters must discern between reality and dreams, illustrating the potential pitfalls of relying too heavily on perception and feelings.

Videos That disagree: -
  1. "The Passion of the Christ" or "The Chosen" present divinely inspired experiences.
  2. "The Tree of Life" (2011) - This film explores spiritual themes and the transcendental experiences of its characters, suggesting a reality that goes beyond our psychological needs and perceptions.
  3. "Contact" (1997) - Although it initially appears to promote reason over emotion, the film ultimately suggests that some experiences can't be fully explained by science or logic.



Website that agree: +
  1. The Secular Web (infidels.org): This website contains numerous articles and essays that critically analyze religious belief, including the reliability of personal spiritual experiences.
  2. Psychology Today (psychologytoday.com): Frequently features articles discussing the psychological underpinnings of spiritual experiences.
  3. Websites like Psychology Today often have articles exploring the psychological aspect of faith.

Websites that disagree: -
  1. Religious websites often have testimonies of divine experiences.
  2. Desiring God (desiringgod.org): Many articles on this site argue for the authenticity of personal spiritual experiences, asserting that these experiences can be genuine encounters with God.
  3. Ligonier Ministries (ligonier.org): This site, grounded in the Reformed tradition, includes teachings that underscore the validity of personal spiritual experiences.

Books that agree: +
  1. Agreement: "The Varieties of Religious Experience" by William James
  2. "You Are Not So Smart" by David McRaney: This book explores various cognitive biases that can interfere with our ability to perceive the truth, including in religious experiences.
  3. "The Invisible Gorilla: How Our Intuitions Deceive Us" by Christopher Chabris and Daniel Simons: This book explores how our intuitions can often mislead us, including in the realm of spiritual experiences.
Books that disagree: -
  1. Disagreement: "The Case for Faith" by Lee Strobel
  2. "The God Who is There" by Francis Schaeffer: Schaeffer argues for the validity of spiritual experiences and the ability of individuals to truly connect with God.
  3. "Knowledge of the Holy" by A.W. Tozer: This book emphasizes the possibility of personal experience with God, asserting that the divine can touch human lives.



Podcast that agree: +
  1. "The Bible for Normal People": Hosted by Peter Enns, a biblical scholar who discusses the complexities and misconceptions about the Bible, including how personal experiences and biases can influence interpretation.
  2. "The Thinking Atheist": Host Seth Andrews often discusses the psychological aspects of religious belief.

Podcast that disagree: -
  1. The Bible for Normal People"
  2. "Unorthodox": This podcast often features stories of personal spiritual experiences, suggesting that these experiences can be genuine encounters with God.
  3. "The Bible Project": This podcast explores themes in the Bible, including the validity of spiritual experiences.

Interest of those that agree: +
Agreement: Secular humanists, atheists, psychologists
Those seeking rational, evidence-based understanding of the world
Interest of those that disagree: +
Religious believers, clergy
Those valuing faith and personal spiritual experiences

  1. Self-Actualization: Regardless of belief, individuals may be pursuing a sense of fulfillment, enlightenment, and personal growth through their understanding and interpretation of personal and spiritual experiences.
  2. Esteem: People on both sides of the argument may be seeking respect from others who share their views, as well as self-respect and confidence in their beliefs.
Opposing Interest:



Unbiased Experts who agree: +
  1. Dr. Michael Shermer: Psychologist, science writer, founder of The Skeptics Society, and editor-in-chief of its magazine Skeptic, which is largely devoted to investigating pseudoscientific and supernatural claims. He often discusses how cognitive biases can affect various aspects of our lives, including religious beliefs.
  2. Dr. Richard Wiseman: A psychologist known for his work on luck, deception, and the science of self-help. His research often includes the field of anomalistic psychology, which attempts to explain paranormal and religious experiences in terms of known psychological and physical factors.

Unbiased Experts who disagree: -
  1. Dr. Andrew Newberg: A neuroscientist who studies religious and spiritual experiences, a field known as neurotheology. His work attempts to understand the nature of religious and spiritual practices and experiences, and does not necessarily assume that they are entirely reducible to psychological factors.
  2. Dr. Ralph Hood Jr.: A psychology professor known for his research on the psychology of religion, particularly in the areas of mystical, conversion, and religious experiences. While his research documents the psychological components of religious experiences, it doesn't necessarily preclude the possibility of genuine spiritual encounters.

Costs of Agreeing: +
  1. Agreement could lead to greater skepticism and less reliance on faith.
  2. Alienation from religious community: Those attributing spiritual feelings solely to psychological needs may feel disconnected from communities that attribute such feelings to divine influence.
  3. Loss of comfort and guidance: The comfort and guidance derived from belief in divine intervention may be lost.
Benefits of Agreeing: -
  1. Encouragement of critical thinking: This perspective encourages critical thinking and skepticism.
  2. Deeper understanding of psychological influences: Recognizing the psychological aspects of spiritual experiences can lead to a deeper understanding of the human mind.
  3. Disagreement could lead to a greater emphasis on personal spiritual experiences.
  4. Cognitive dissonance: Holding spiritual beliefs that contradict one's understanding of psychology can cause cognitive dissonance.
  5. Potential for deception or manipulation: Without considering the psychological influence, one could be more susceptible to deception or manipulation.






# of reasons to agree: +0


# of reasons to disagree: -0


# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: +0


# of reasons to agree with reasons to disagree: -0


Total Idea Score: 0





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The LDS church is wrong to tell people that "good feelings" are valid reasons to believe the church

Alternative ways to phrase the belief:
  1. The LDS church should not endorse emotional experiences as valid evidence for its truthfulness."
  2. "Relying on 'good feelings' as proof of the LDS church's validity is problematic."
Objective Criteria for Assessing the Validity of this Belief:
  1. Degree to which 'good feelings' can be reliably linked to the truth of a specific doctrine or belief
  2. Prevalence of similar 'good feelings' across different religious or non-religious experiences
  3. The extent to which 'good feelings' are influenced by external factors (e.g., group dynamics, suggestion, expectation)



  1. God probably won't give you more spiritual guidance until you have exhausted the resources you already have access to.

    • Score: 3 (Truth) * 0.7 (Relevance) * 1 (Uniqueness) = 2.1

  2. God won't tell us what is true, until after we have used all our reason, ability to organize information, and logical skills.

    • Score: 3 (Truth) * 0.75 (Relevance) * 0.9 (Uniqueness) = 2.025

  3. Feelings cannot be trusted to verify if a historical fact is true or not.

    • Score: 4 (Truth) * 0.85 (Relevance) * 1 (Uniqueness) = 3.4

  4. It is bad to make important life (or eternal salvation) decisions based primarily on your feelings.

    • Score: 2 (Truth) * 0.8 (Relevance) * 0.8 (Uniqueness) = 1.28

Reasons to disagree: -

  1. Feelings can provide a profound, personal spiritual experience that goes beyond logical reasoning.

    • Score: 3 (Truth) * 0.7 (Relevance) * 1 (Uniqueness) = 2.1

  2. Feelings can serve as a form of personal revelation or spiritual guidance.

    • Score: 2 (Truth) * 0.75 (Relevance) * 0.7 (Uniqueness) = 1.05

  3. Human cognition is not purely rational; feelings and intuition play a crucial role in our decision-making processes.

    • Score: 3 (Truth) * 0.8 (Relevance) * 1 (Uniqueness) = 2.4

  4. Emotionally resonant experiences, such as feeling the Spirit, can be transformative and deeply meaningful, contributing to a sense of purpose, community, and identity.

    • Score: 2 (Truth) * 0.85 (Relevance) * 0.9 (Uniqueness) = 1.53
Scores:
Total score for agreement: 2.1 + 2.025 + 3.4 + 1.28 = 8.805
Total score for disagreement: 2.1 + 1.05 + 2.4 + 1.53 = 7.08
Total conclusion score = 8.805 (Agreement) - 7.08 (Disagreement) = 1.725



Supporting Evidence:
  1. Cognitive biases such as confirmation bias can lead individuals to interpret feelings in a way that confirms pre-existing beliefs.
  2. Empirical studies have demonstrated that feelings and emotions can be influenced by a variety of external factors unrelated to the truth of a belief.
  3. There are many instances, both within religious contexts and in general life situations, where feelings can lead individuals to incorrect conclusions.
  4. Experiencing warm, fuzzy feelings, often cited as the foundation of testimonies in the LDS Church, isn't exclusive to religious contexts. You can get similar feelings when watching fictional movies, which doesn't necessarily indicate truth. This is an example of 'elevation', a well-documented psychological response to witnessing virtuous acts of remarkable moral goodness. It's important to remember that feelings, while meaningful, are not always reliable indicators of factual truth.

Weakening Evidence:

  1. Many religions and spiritual traditions affirm the value of personal spiritual experiences, including feelings, as a source of truth.
  2. Some argue that profound feelings of peace, love, or joy can indicate a connection to a higher truth or power.
  3. While the LDS Church advocates for personal feelings as one method of gaining a testimony, it also encourages other avenues for seeking truth, such as studying scriptures and teachings.



Scriptures that agree: 
  1. Jeremiah 17:9: "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?"
  2. 1 Thessalonians 5:21: "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."




Scriptures that disagree: 
  1. Galatians 5 22 
  2. Moroni 10:4-5 in the Book of Mormon encourages readers to pray to know the truth of the book.


Books that Agree
  1. "Thinking, Fast and Slow" by Daniel Kahneman discusses the fallibility of human judgment and decision-making, including the influence of emotion.
Books that Disagree
  1. "The God Who Weeps: How Mormonism Makes Sense of Life" by Terryl and Fiona Givens discusses the role of personal feelings and experiences in the context of LDS faith.


Images That agree: +

  1. A picture of a brain scan comparing the emotional reactions of someone hearing a fact and someone hearing something that confirms their belief. This could visually demonstrate the idea that feelings can be influenced by confirmation bias.

  2. Political cartoons that satirize the idea of basing beliefs on feelings. For instance, a cartoon showing a character making a significant decision (like purchasing a house) based solely on "good feelings," with disastrous results.


Images That disagree: -

  1. An image or diagram illustrating the process of spiritual revelation as understood by LDS Church doctrine. This could depict the steps of prayer, meditation, receiving a spiritual prompting, and taking action based on that prompting.

  2. Photos of Mormon families or individuals looking happy and content, implying that their faith (based on spiritual feelings) has resulted in a fulfilling life.




Valid Interest of those who agree: +

  1. Skeptics and rationalists - They value logical reasoning and evidence-based decision-making above subjective emotional experiences (Maslow's cognitive needs - Secondary - High validity).

  2. Ex-Mormons or disaffected members - They might have felt misled by their past emotional experiences and value their new perspective (Maslow's esteem needs - Secondary - Moderate validity).

  3. Mental health professionals - They might be interested in promoting emotional health and understand the complexity of human emotions and the dangers of basing decisions solely on feelings (Maslow's safety needs - Primary - High validity).

  4. Non-Mormon religious adherents - They might believe their own religious experiences or doctrines to be more valid or true, and see the LDS focus on feelings as a flawed approach to faith (Maslow's esteem and belongingness needs - Secondary - Moderate validity).

  1. Devout Mormons - They might have a strong emotional connection to their faith and see their feelings as an important part of their spiritual experiences (Maslow's spiritual and belongingness needs - Secondary - High validity).

  2. People who value subjective experiences - They may believe that feelings and personal experiences are valid ways of knowing or perceiving the world (Maslow's cognitive and self-actualization needs - Secondary - High validity).

  3. Certain spiritual leaders or theologians - They might see feelings as a crucial part of connecting with the divine and navigating faith (Maslow's spiritual needs - Secondary - High validity).

  4. Those who had profound emotional experiences tied to their conversion or faith journey - They may see their feelings as a reliable source of truth and direction (Maslow's esteem and self-actualization needs - Secondary - Moderate validity).




Videos That agree: +





Videos That disagree: -



Website that agree: +
  1. Websites like Rational Faiths or MormonThink critically examine LDS teachings and practices.

Websites that disagree: -
  1. Websites like FairMormon or LDS.org affirm the role of personal feelings in gaining a testimony.



Podcast that agree: +
  1. "The Liturgists Podcast" often discusses the interplay of faith, feelings, and doubt.

Podcast that disagree: -
  1. "The LDS Perspectives Podcast" discusses various aspects of LDS doctrine, including personal testimony.



Unbiased Experts who agree: +

  1. Neuroscientists or psychologists who specialize in emotion and cognition might agree with the idea that feelings are not a reliable guide to truth. They might argue that feelings can be easily manipulated and are often based on personal biases and experiences rather than objective facts.

  2. Philosophers who focus on epistemology, the study of knowledge and belief, might also argue that feelings are not a reliable basis for beliefs about truth. They might point to the importance of empirical evidence and logical reasoning in forming reliable beliefs.


Unbiased Experts who disagree: -

  1. Some religious scholars or theologians might argue that feelings can be a valid source of spiritual knowledge or truth. They might point to the long tradition of mysticism and personal revelation in many religions.

  2. Some psychologists might argue that emotions and intuition can play an important role in decision-making and belief formation, even if they shouldn't be the sole basis for these processes.




Common Interest:

  1. Both sides likely value truth and the pursuit of understanding. This shared interest could be a basis for dialogue, with each side recognizing that the other is also trying to understand the world and find truth, even if they have different methods or beliefs.

  2. Both sides likely value community and belonging. They might find common ground in discussing the role that shared beliefs and feelings play in creating a sense of community and identity.


Opposing Interest:

  1. One major obstacle might be different beliefs about the nature of truth and how it can be known. Those who believe that feelings are a valid basis for truth might find it difficult to accept arguments that prioritize empirical evidence and logical reasoning.

  2. There may also be significant emotional obstacles to dialogue and understanding. For example, people who have had powerful emotional experiences that they interpret as spiritual truths may feel dismissed or invalidated by arguments that feelings are not a reliable basis for belief.




Related arguments:
  1. The LDS church is wrong to tell people that "bad feelings" are valid reasons to disbelieve those who criticize the church



# of reasons to agree: +4
# of reasons to disagree: -0
# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: +0
# of reasons to agree with reasons to disagree: -0
Total Idea Score: 4

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