Joseph smith's motivations were pure -1


Reasons to agree


  1. Joseph worked his whole life in menial labor trying to build up the kingdom of God.

  2. Joseph's wife stayed married to him.

  3. Many people stayed loyal to him.

  4. Joseph tried to build a zion-like society, and paid respect to grace, and virtue.

  5. Joseph bought a slave his freedom.





  1. Joseph seemed to like power. -1

  2. Joseph tried to form a bank, perhaps he was trying to get rich.

  3. Joseph seems to have introduced polygamy as a way to increase his sex partners.






# of reasons to agree: 5


# of reasons to disagree: -3


# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0


# of reasons to agree with reasons to disagree: -1


Total Idea Score: -1

Scriptures that agree









Scriptures that disagree










Images That disagree







Interest of those who agree

Interest of those who disagree



Common Interest

Opposing Interest





Videos That agree

Videos That disagree



Website that agree

Websites that disagree



Related arguments:



Don't like the score? It is easy to change the score. Just post a reason to agree or disagree with the overall idea, or any of the reasons and the score will change


You can logically believe that Joseph was once inspired but had fallen.

Reasons to agree:



  1. True, no one is perfect one day and totally evil the next day, but it makes sense that someone could have qualified at one time for spiritual guidance, lost it, and gone astray.



Reasons to disagree:



  1. David fell, and Judus, but God wouldn't mess with people so much, to send a new prophet in the latter days, and let him fall.

  2. Mormons leaders have said that God will not let them lead the church astray. But if Joseph Smith was removed because of polygamy, why wasn't Brigham Young? If Brigham Young was removed because of his view's on race, why weren't the next church leaders?

It is important to analyze unbiased history around Joseph Smith

  1. All truth is important.

  2. Historical truth is important.

Reasons to disagree

  1. Whatever problems have emerged in his story are not really to be examined because they are of God and so the explanation for them lies in the mystery of God.

The treatment by LDS leaders to Black men indicates that the church is not inspired


Reasons to agree


  1. You are told as a Mormon to brag to your non-Mormon friends that we have a living prophet who can tell us things that God wants us to know. If God really has a special relationship with the LDS prophet, there are no good explanations of why God would wait until 1978 for him to tell our Church to start giving Blacks the priesthood.


Reasons to disagree


  1. Sure, the LDS people and leaders were racist, but when your talking about theology, it shouldn't matter when a church changed, just that it ever was Bad. It shouldn't matter that it was longer ago that Baptist preachers were slave holders. If the baptist doctrine was so flimsy that it can change from once supporting slavery, then there is not much of a doctrine that is worth while. If Catholic Popes were really bad a long time ago, it doesn't make it any worse for Mormons, that their prophet was bad more recently... You can say that the Mormon culture sucked that it was racest for so long, but if you are going to choose a church for its doctrine, then there is no church that was always good racialy, and you shouldn't be embarrassed to choose the LDS church now. Of course you should be a little humble when trying to brag how supper-duper-smart-and-in-touch with God that your prophet is, but you can still believe he is sort-of inspired.










# of reasons to agree: 1





# of reasons to disagree: -1




# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0




# of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0




Total Idea Score: 0





Scriptures that agree












Scriptures that disagree




  1.  









Interest of those who agree
















Interest of those who disagree






  1.  









Common Interest












Opposing Interest




  1.  









Videos That agree





  1.  




Videos That disagree





  1.  










Images That agree


 














Images That disagree






















    Website that agree











    Websites that disagree





















      Don't like the score? It is easy to change the score. Just post a reason to agree or disagree with the overall idea, or any of the reasons and the score will change




      Joseph Smith lied about the Book of Abraham +2


      Reasons to agree: 7


      1. One of the worst things is people who are confident, but are wrong. Joseph smith confidently proclaimed the translation of the facsimiles in the Pearl of Great Price. He was completely wrong. Not even close. When someone gets things this wrong, you must assume, what other things did he just make up? 

      2. Joseph lied when he described his process as a translation. 

      3. Joseph Smith described his work as translating from the papyrus that he found. Modern scholars have proven that Smiths translation does not match the original papyrus. Perhaps Joseph Smith was really inspired. Perhaps the information is really from God. However, you should not lie to exaggerate or misrepresent what really happened. It is wrong to lie. It is wrong to say you translated, if you are just getting thoughts and ideas that are unrelated to what is on a papyrus. Henry B. Eyring said that God did not need something written down on papyrus in order to get his message to us. Of course he is right, but Joseph shouldn't have acted like he was translating. In order to still believe the Church is true, you have to believe that Joseph was sort of a charlatan, but that God used a boastful, exaggerating, man to bring forth the truth. This is probably not the case. 

      4. In the Times and Seasons Joseph presented, and other Church leaders continued to present drawings with interpretations that have been proven to be wrong.

      5. Modern scholars, including Mormon scholars, date the papyri to a few hundred not thousands of years before Christ, but Joseph Smith said that Abraham wrote on the scrolls with his own hand. 

      6. It seems that Joseph invented hieroglyphic characters to fill in for missing characters lost by the lacuna 

      7. According to Smith, the book was "a translation of some ancient records ... purporting to be the writings of Abraham, while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus". However they are actually commonly used funderal texts, and were not written by the Prophet Abraham.


      Reasons to disagree: 3





      1. John Laurence Gee (born 1964) is an American Latter-day Saint and Egyptologist at Brigham Young University (BYU) who is known for his writings in support of the Book of Abraham.

      2. The phrase "by his own hand" can simply mean that Abraham is the author of the book. Similarly, we could hold a modern printed Bible in our hands, point to 1 Corinthians, and say, "This was written by the Apostle Paul." 

      3. Joseph was translating the writings of Abraham, so it is quite possible that he believed that the actual scroll in his possession was written by Abraham himself. There is no evidence, however, that this belief was based on revelation.







      # of reasons to agree: +7



      # of reasons to disagree: -3


      # of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: +0


      # of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: -0


      Total Idea Score: +4






      Don't like the score? It is easy to change the score. Just post a reason to agree or disagree with the overall idea, or any of the reasons and the score will change.





































      FigureJoseph Smith Explanation[40]Explanation by non-Mormon and Mormon Egyptologists (quotes are from Deveria 1860)[25][41][42][43][44][45]
      1The Angel of the Lord."The soul of Osiris (which should have a human head)"
      2Abraham fastened upon an altar."Osiris coming to life on his couch, which is in the shape of a lion"
      3The idolatrous priest of Elkenah attempting to offer up Abraham as a sacrifice."The God Anubis (who should have a jackal's head) effecting the resurrection of Osiris"
      4The altar for sacrifice by the idolatrous priests, standing before the gods of Elkenah [sic], Libnah, Mahmackrah, Korash, and Pharaoh."The funeral bed of Osiris"
      5The idolatrous god of Elkenah.Canopic jar portraying Qebehsenuf with a falcon's head - one of thefour sons of Horus
      6The idolatrous god of Libnah.Canopic jar portraying Duamutef with a jackal's head - one of the four sons of Horus
      7The idolatrous god of Mahmackrah.Canopic jar portraying Hapy with an ape's head - one of the four sons of Horus
      8The idolatrous god of Korash.Canopic jar portraying Imsety with a human head - one of the four sons of Horus
      9The idolatrous god of Pharaoh."The sacred crocodile, symbolic of the god Sedet"
      10Abraham in Egypt."Altar laden with offerings"
      11Designed to represent the pillars of heaven, as understood by the Egyptians."An ornament peculiar to Egyptian art"
      12Raukeeyang, signifying expanse, or the firmament over our heads; but in this case, in relation to this subject, the Egyptians meant it to signify Shaumau, to be high, or the heavens, answering to the Hebrew word, Shaumahyeem."Customary representation of ground in Egyptian paintings (The word Shauman is not Egyptian, and the Hebrew word is badly copied)"








      Parents who love their children cannot afford to be intimidated by them

      1. Your job, as a parent, isn't to let children learn from their own mistakes, but to protect them while they are young from setting bad habits, and to try to get them to learn from other people's mistakes.

      2. Children might not be aware they are in danger.

      3. Children are stupid adults.

      4. Children are children.

      5. You can destroy your life, if you get trapped in drugs, alcohol, or unhealthy sexual relationships.

      6. People who are intimidated will defer, and you should not defer to children on important things.

      1. You can't control your children. Children are going to eventually make up their own minds and so you should let them learn from their own mistakes.



      # of reasons to agree: 5
      # of reasons to disagree: -0
      # of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0
      # of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0
      Total Idea Score: 5


      Don't like the score? It is easy to change the score. Just post a reason to agree or disagree with the overall idea, or any of the reasons and the score will change.

      Sleepovers are bad

      Reasons to agree
      1. Too many youth try alcohol for the first time at a sleepover.
      2. Too many youth try tobacco for the first time at a sleepover.
      3. Too many youth have their first exposure to pornography at a sleepover.
      4. Peer pressure becomes more powerful when our children are away from our influence.
      5. Our defenses are weakened late at night.
      # of reasons to agree: 5
      # of reasons to disagree: -0
      # of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0
      # of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0
      Total Idea Score: 5

      Don't like the score? It is easy to change the score. Just post a reason to agree or disagree with the overall idea, or any of the reasons and the score will change.

      (+5) Families should spend time together once a week

      1. Parenting is rewarding if you do a good job.

      2. Children need a good relationship with their parent.

      3. Families that play together stay together.

      4. If you don't make it a goal to do every week, it will not get done.

      5. If you have time to watch TV you have time to spend with your family.



      # of reasons to agree: 5
      # of reasons to disagree: -0
      # of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0
      # of reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: 0
      Total Idea Score: 5


      Don't like the score? It is easy to change the score. Just post a reason to agree or disagree with the overall idea, or any of the reasons and the score will change.

      The Kindle is better than the Nook



      Just tell me your e-mail address, and you can contribute!

      Reasons to agree: %
      1. The Kindle cost $10 less than the Nook.
      2. The kindle is 8.7 ounces, the Nook is 11.2 ounces (28% heavier). 
      3. The Kindle has new and improved "Pearl" e-ink screen.
              R2A(+): 1       R2AA(+): 0       R2DA(-): 0       

      1. The Kindle can not read files in the EPUB format.
              R2D(-): 0       R2AD(-): 0       R2DD(+): 0        Total Score: 1

      1. Validating the decision they already made.
      Most Probable interest of those who disagree: %
      1. Validating the decision they already made.

        Value Validity: Equality




        The numbering system below describes a system that scores groups of people within a range of 1 to 10 by how much they value equality.

        1. These people undervalue equality. People who value equality at a 1, do not value equality very much. These people are willing to accept inhuman, or even unnatural cruelty to others, or specific groups of people. They do not value all life equally. People from their group (family, race, nationality) are acceptable, however they give little or no concern to those from other groups, or actively seek to harm those from other groups. 

        2.  

        3.  

        4.  

        5.  

        6.  

        7.   

        8.  

        9.  

        10. These people over value equality. Someone who overvalues an otherwise positive value like equality would be willing to sacrifice other good values in order to satisfy equality. These people not only are willing to steel from Peter to give to Paul, but are willing to trample all over such concepts as "freedom of choice", the "law of the harvest", justice, or reasonable application of mercy in order to ensure that Peter does not have anything more than Paul. An example of someone who is overly concerned with equality hate the strong, powerful, or beautiful. These people are not just concerned about equality of opportunity, but also equality of outcome. They are willing to sacrifice freedom, and require massive amounts of power in order to guarantee the outcome that they see fit. They don't care if anyone is happy, just that no one is more happy than others. They are so concerned with equality, that they can not accept that truly evil might be sad, or noble people to experience any happiness. They feel bad for Hitler. These people would say that no tradition, no norm, no action is wrong, or worse than other actions. It is wrong to say that someone is bad, and another person is good. We are all equal, and therefore everyone can be whatever they want as long as it is not better than someone else.



        Clearing the Fog: A Call for Organized, Meaningful Information Exchange

        Let's face it - we are inundated with information. The problem is, much of it isn't organized in a way that helps us make better decisions or gain deeper understanding. In the current landscape, we have a situation that I like to call "manufacturing confusion".

        Imagine a system where each reason to agree or disagree is tagged, organized, and classified. You could trace the genesis of an argument, finding the first person who made that claim, or discover more eloquent ways it has been expressed.

        Each post would carry a wealth of associated information: better or more succinct ways of expressing the same idea, the inception of the argument, and references to books, songs, and statistics that support or challenge this perspective.

        To cut through the noise and make real progress, we need not just more, but better organized information. We should be brainstorming common interests and opposing viewpoints, and generating alternative solutions.

        I've been toiling away at this concept since 1998, and it's been quite frustrating to see that no one else seems to be advocating for or trying to build the web forum of my dreams. On the surface, it seems simple - a platform that promotes meaningful information exchange, instead of cluttering the web with more noise. I've started some work on this project at Group Intel and Idea Stock Exchange, but I would love to brainstorm with others about the features of this forum and how to bring it to fruition.

        Thank you for taking the time to read this post. If you're as passionate as I am about making the internet a platform that promotes good information, I would love to talk about it with you. Let's start a conversation today to build a better tomorrow.

        Nancy Pelosi is wrong

        As anyone who follows history and politics knows, there has always been a very healthy debate on the issues in our country.

        Yet, now that conservatives are expressing their disapproval of President Obama's proposed health care plan, liberals are suddenly very critical of dissent and debate. Earlier this week, Speaker Pelosi accused honest citizens expressing their views on health care of being "un-American." And why? Because they disagree with her on the need for a new government insurance program.

        Our Founding Fathers would be very surprised by Speaker Pelosi's attempt to clamp down on dissent. This nation was founded by patriots who staged the ultimate protest in declaring their independence from a distant and out-of-touch government. The rights to peacefully assemble and petition our elected officials are guaranteed by the Constitution. What Nancy Pelosi doesn't understand is that our differences and disagreements don't make us weaker; they make us stronger.

        This is a critical time for our nation, and a lot of the issues we’re debating now will affect generations to come. All of us have a duty to press on ... a duty to state our case without fear of government reprisal.

        That is why I’m writing to you to take two important steps today.

        First, I encourage you to make your feelings on the health care bill known by calling the White House at (202) 456-1111 and your congressional representatives at (202) 224-3121. Let them know that dissenting is the most "American" thing one can do and that you have very real concerns about the cost and scope of this legislation.

        Second, I hope you will consider making a contribution to my Free and Strong America PAC today. Your generous contribution of $25, $50, $100, $250, $500, $1,000, or even the maximum $5,000 will go a long way toward making sure that we push back when big government liberals like Nancy Pelosi try to stifle debate because they don't like it when ordinary Americans disagree with their far-left agenda.

        Thank you again for your support and all that you do to ensure that our country remains free and strong.

        Cambridge Police Profiling Still A Grim Reality for Harvard Faculty Assholes

        http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2009/07/cambridge-police-profiling-still-a-grim-reality-for-harvard-faculty-assholes.html

        Guest Opinion
        by Professor John Evans Evans-John
        Harvard School of Harvard Faculty Asshole Studies
        Harvard University

        When I first learned of the arrest of my colleague Professor Henry Louis "Skip" Gates after he stood up to the fascist jackboots of a declasse, ill-educated Cambridge police officer, I was of course angered -- but scarcely shocked. L'Affaire Gates simply aired, in public, the dirty 100-thread-count table linen of an American culture where Harvard faculty assholes still face a daily struggle against profiling, abuse, and insolence.

        It will come as no surprise that Skip's arrest was the talk of the Douchebag Room at the Harvard Faculty Club last Friday. I and a group of colleagues had assembled for our weekly lunch; I opted for their competently-prepared Ahi Tuna Tartare and an amusing glass of '05 Hospices de Beaune Premier Cru Cuvee Cyrot-Chaudron. I had noticed that the Franz Fanon Memorial Booth -- Skip's long-reserved lunch spot -- was uncharacteristically empty, and asked our waiter Sergio for an explanation.

        "Professor Skeep, he no is come today," said Sergio. "I tink he is in the jail."

        Our table exchanged knowing glances, for we knew immediately that Skip was only the latest victim of a system that singles out the Harvard faculty asshole for stigmatization and unequal justice. It is a system that all of us knew too well, and provided an opportunity for an open conversation about our shared experiences as Harvard faculty assholes in America while waiting for Sergio to bring the dessert cart.

        One after one came the cascade of stark stories: the rolled eyes of our department secretaries. The Spanish language mockery of our office janitors. The foul gestures of drunken strap-hanging Red Sox lumpenproles aboard the MBTA. The frequent police stops on the highway to Cape Ann and Martha's Vineyard for "Volvoing While Asshole." And then there are the insulting media stereotypes, where we are routinely caricatured as pompous, effete, self-important, irrelevant elitists. All, I might add, by a motley collection of lowbrow inferiors, few of whom have ever published in a peer-reviewed journal. Let alone edit one.

        Sometimes it even comes at the hand of self-styled "peers" from D-list state ampersand institutions. One colleague recounted the tale of his restroom confrontation with a Texas A&M professor at a national academic conference last year. After relieving themselves at adjacent urinals, my colleague noticed the oaf leaving hastily for the plenary session and decided to gently point out his hygienic forgetfulness. "A Harvard man washes his hands after urinating," he said. "And an Aggie don't piss all over his hands, asshole," came the reply.

        A female colleague from the English department recalled a recent incident along the Charles River jogging path during her regular morning run. A confused passer-by rudely interrupted her progress and requested directions, as if my colleague were some sort of lowly campus guide or untenured adjunct. "Where does this street go to?" she demanded. Naturally, my colleague took the opportunity to correct her, noting that "at Harvard we do not end our sentences in prepositions."

        "Okay, Where does this street go to, asshole?" barked the interloper. Needless to say, my colleague's daily morning runs have since been replaced with tear-filled visits to the Faculty Asshole Self Esteem Counseling Center.

        For untold hundreds of Harvard faculty assholes such indignities are, sadly, still part and parcel of being "The Other." As Associate Director of the School of Harvard Faculty Asshole Studies, I have worked to institute policies to insure that Harvard maintains a nurturing environment for all assholes in our community, be they faculty, students, or alumni. Some progress has been made, such as Harvard's mandatory sensitivity and deference training program for all incoming freshassholes. But such internal programs do little to address the impertinence and discrimination we still face outside campus. Some have suggested that we involve the Cambridge Police Department in an educational outreach program, but in my experience the CPD is among the worst offenders.

        Case in point: last winter I was slated to deliver the keynote address for an intradepartmental asshole colloquium at Lowell House. Running late, I temporarily parked along Plympton. As I emerged from my Audi, I discovered that I had captured the unwelcome attention of a CPD officer. "Hey Buddy, is that your car?" he barked.

        "Why? Because I'm a Harvard faculty asshole in America?" I cleverly retorted.

        "No asshole, because this is a snow route and you can't double park here," he sneered, concocting a flimsy excuse for his continued harassment. "You have to move it now."

        "That's Professor Asshole to you, you fascist townie," I explained, tossing him the Audi's remote-start key. "Need a valet? Call your mother at the brothel."

        It doesn't take an experienced asshole rights activist to tell you what happened next: my Audi was on its way to impound while I rode to the Cambridge Police Station in the unheated vinyl rear seat of Bull Conner's squad car. To add insult to injury, the desk officer refused my request for a dignified background bookshelf for my booking photos.

        Thankfully the Constitution still allows even Harvard Assholes a bare modicum of human rights, so I used my allotted phone call to alert the Dean and the Faculty Grievance Committee to my plight. In those 35 excruciating minutes I wasted away waiting in that stark cell, I wrote the opening chapter of "Letters From a Cambridge Jail," my forthcoming scholarly magnum opus on the grim legacy of Asshole oppression in America.

        Eventually my arrest record was expunged and I agreed to meet the loathsome arresting officer at President Faust's office for a conciliatory off-record "beer chat." As the University Counsel had predicted, the lure of free limitless alcohol proved irresistible to the simpleminded Irishman, and he was soon happily signing confessions of guilt and abject apologies. Still, even after he was fired, I was left to pick up the pieces of my shattered psyche.

        As I recounted the details of that unpleasant encounter to my colleagues, a few wondered aloud if we were not better served by changing the system gradually. Then our eyes turned to the stately historic portraits of the Harvard faculty assholes who came before us, hanging in silent judgment on the Douchebag Room walls; Schlessinger, Galbraith, Leary, Cornel West, Alan Dershowitz, Theodore Kaczynski. Would these great assholes have accepted complicit silence in the face of crude police insolence? How will we be remembered by future generations of Harvard faculty assholes who will battle future generations of Cambridge police and parking enforcement officials? Where is Sergio with the damned dessert cart?

        Some suggest that the election of President Obama proves that America's prejudice against Harvard assholes is a quaint relic of the past. But for those of us who live with it every day, the evidence shows the opposite. And it isn't just Harvard assholes suffering the cold, rude hand of uppity townie privilege. Other, if less endowed, asshole faculties suffer similar oppression; in the southern Lacrosse fields of Duke, in the west coast arugula farms of Stanford, at Northwestern, where ever Northwestern is.

        No, we must not be silent. That is why I have used a portion of my class action windfall against the Cambridge Police department to produce a shocking new documentary film, "Asshole Like Me," detailing the courageous plight of the tenured Sphincter-American community. It premiers this Friday at the Science Center. Get your tickets now -- with free beer on tap, demand will be high!