The LDS church lies about Joseph Smith


Reasons to agree: +2


  1. My mission president told us that Joseph Smith never consummated any of his marriages to any of his wives but Emma. However, I've heard that, when the re-organized church was saying he never practiced Polygamy, Brigham Young got sworn affidavits from women in Utah, that he consummated their relationship  That they were married in every sense of the word. 

  2. Not telling all the truth, and letting people make up their own minds is a form of lying. If the church really wanted to be 100% honest, like the 10 commandments teach, they should frankley admit Joseph Smiths mistakes.


Reasons to disagree: -0


  1.  





# of reasons to agree: 2


# of reasons to disagree: -0


# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0


# of reasons to agree with reasons to disagree: -0


Total Idea Score: 0





Website that agree: +2


  1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith's_wives. I grew up in the church in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. I never knew any of this stuff.

  2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_Latter_Day_Saint_polygamy


Websites that disagree: -2






Don't like the score? It is easy to change the score. Just post a reason to agree or disagree with the overall idea, or any of the reasons and the score will change

You should try and read Modern Library's 100 best novels

Reasons to agree:
  1. The books on the "Modern Library's 100 best novels" list are good
    1. Reasons to agree:
      1. #13 on the list: "1984," by George Orwell is a good book
        1. Reasons to agree:
          1. Art imitates real life, and real life imitates art. People form the 1950s soviet union say that is what it was like, only 1984 was a little worse. 1984 is an accurate warning. You can't ask much more than a book's main point to be based in an important truth. 
      2. Number 31 on the list, "Animal Farm" by George Orwell, is good. 
        1. Reasons to agree:
          1. Truth is beauty and beauty is truth. If a book is not truthful it is not beautiful. However, obvious truths are often ignored, because people would rather be unique than diligent. A good book can vividly explain obvious truths in such a way that people would feel stupid to ignore. It is an obvious truth that workers' revolution tend to go wrong. However people keep ignoring this fact, because the motivations behind workers revolutions are so strong. Orwell creates an allegory from which you see how stupid these people are. Truths well told:
            1. Whenever you give power to people they typically succumb to the temptations of privilege and power. 
  • 41. "Lord of the Flies," William Golding
  • 74. "A Farewell to Arms," Ernest Hemingway
Need to Read?
  • 3. "A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man," James Joyce
  • 4. "Lolita," Vladimir Nabokov
  • 5. "Brave New World," Aldous Huxley
  • 6. "The Sound and the Fury," William Faulkner
  • 7. "Catch-22," Joseph Heller
  • 8. "Darkness at Noon," Arthur Koestler
  • 9. "Sons and Lovers," D. H. Lawrence
  • 11. "Under the Volcano," Malcolm Lowry
  • 12. "The Way of All Flesh," Samuel Butler
  • 14. "I, Claudius," Robert Graves
  • 15. "To the Lighthouse," Virginia Woolf
  • 16. "An American Tragedy," Theodore Dreiser
  • 17. "The Heart Is a Lonely Hunter," Carson McCullers
  • 18. "Slaughterhouse Five," Kurt Vonnegut
  • 19. "Invisible Man," Ralph Ellison
  • 20. "Native Son," Richard Wright
  • 21. "Henderson the Rain King," Saul Bellow
  • 22. "Appointment in Samarra," John O' Hara
  • 23. "U.S.A." (trilogy), John Dos Passos
  • 24. "Winesburg, Ohio," Sherwood Anderson
  • 25. "A Passage to India," E. M. Forster
  • 26. "The Wings of the Dove," Henry James
  • 27. "The Ambassadors," Henry James
  • 28. "Tender Is the Night," F. Scott Fitzgerald
  • 29. "The Studs Lonigan Trilogy," James T. Farrell
  • 30. "The Good Soldier," Ford Madox Ford
  • 32. "The Golden Bowl," Henry James
  • 33. "Sister Carrie," Theodore Dreiser
  • 34. "A Handful of Dust," Evelyn Waugh
  • 35. "As I Lay Dying," William Faulkner
  • 36. "All the King's Men," Robert Penn Warren
  • 37. "The Bridge of San Luis Rey," Thornton Wilder
  • 38. "Howards End," E. M. Forster
  • 39. "Go Tell It on the Mountain," James Baldwin
  • 40. "The Heart of the Matter," Graham Greene
  • 42. "Deliverance," James Dickey
  • 43. "A Dance to the Music of Time" (series), Anthony Powell
  • 44. "Point Counter Point," Aldous Huxley
  • 45. "The Sun Also Rises," Ernest Hemingway
  • 46. "The Secret Agent," Joseph Conrad
  • 47. "Nostromo," Joseph Conrad
  • 48. "The Rainbow," D. H. Lawrence
  • 49. "Women in Love," D. H. Lawrence
  • 50. "Tropic of Cancer," Henry Miller
  • 51. "The Naked and the Dead," Norman Mailer
  • 52. "Portnoy's Complaint," Philip Roth
  • 53. "Pale Fire," Vladimir Nabokov
  • 54. "Light in August," William Faulkner
  • 55. "On the Road," Jack Kerouac
  • 56. "The Maltese Falcon," Dashiell Hammett
  • 57. "Parade's End," Ford Madox Ford
  • 58. "The Age of Innocence," Edith Wharton
  • 59. "Zuleika Dobson," Max Beerbohm
  • 60. "The Moviegoer," Walker Percy
  • 61. "Death Comes to the Archbishop," Willa Cather
  • 62. "From Here to Eternity," James Jones
  • 63. "The Wapshot Chronicles," John Cheever
  • 64. "The Catcher in the Rye," J. D. Salinger
  • 65. "A Clockwork Orange," Anthony Burgess
  • 66. "Of Human Bondage," W. Somerset Maugham
  • 67. "Heart of Darkness," Joseph Conrad
  • 68. "Main Street," Sinclair Lewis
  • 69. "The House of Mirth," Edith Wharton
  • 70. "The Alexandria Quartet," Lawrence Durrell
  • 71. "A High Wind in Jamaica," Richard Hughes
  • 72. "A House for Ms. Biswas," V. S. Naipaul
  • 73. "The Day of the Locust," Nathaniel West
  • 75. "Scoop," Evelyn Waugh
  • 76. "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie," Muriel Spark
  • 77. "Finnegans Wake," James Joyce
  • 78. "Kim," Rudyard Kipling
  • 79. "A Room With a View," E. M. Forster
  • 80. "Brideshead Revisited," Evelyn Waugh
  • 81. "The Adventures of Augie March," Saul Bellow
  • 82. "Angle of Repose," Wallace Stegner
  • 83. "A Bend in the River," V. S. Naipaul
  • 84. "The Death of the Heart," Elizabeth Bowen
  • 85. "Lord Jim," Joseph Conrad
  • 86. "Ragtime," E. L. Doctorow
  • 87. "The Old Wives' Tale," Arnold Bennett
  • 88. "The Call of the Wild," Jack London
  • 89. "Loving," Henry Green
  • 90. "Midnight's Children," Salman Rushdie
  • 91. "Tobacco Road," Erskine Caldwell
  • 92. "Ironweed," William Kennedy
  • 93. "The Magus," John Fowles
  • 94. "Wide Sargasso Sea," Jean Rhys
  • 95. "Under the Net," Iris Murdoch
  • 96. "Sophie's Choice," William Styron
  • 97. "The Sheltering Sky," Paul Bowles
  • 98. "The Postman Always Rings Twice," James M. Cain
  • 99. "The Ginger Man," J. P. Donleavy
  • 100. "The Magnificent Ambersons," Booth Tarkington

"Ulysses," by James Joyce is not a great book

Reasons to agree:

  1. Works of literature should not be measured by how much work went into them. Sure a lot of work went into writing Ulysses. But writing shouldn't just be a game where someone says, look at all this fancy work I can do, and people pat themselves on the back for being able to notice the fancy work. 
  2. Ulysses is tiresome
  3. Ulysses is tedious
  4. Joyce is a pseudo-intellectual. Scientist are intellects. They propose a hypothesis  Make it as clear as possible, and gather evidence to support or weaken the hypothesis. If Joyce believes things, he should state them clearly, make a list of logical reasons to support those conclusion, and encourage other people to submit their reasons to agree or disagree with his conclusion. We can do that now. Lets advance the science of thinking. Lets be clear. Lets be organized. If you believe your ideas are important you owe it to your readers to be clear, comprehensible, and transparent. Genius does not need to hide itself so that only fellow geniuses can comprehend, but true Genius is making truth plain.
  5. "By turning literature from entertaining stories into puzzle solving, I believe he has turned many children away from reading." (From Amazon).

"The Great Gatsby," by F. Scott Fitzgerald, is not a good book

Reasons to agree:
  1. There is no reason Gatsby should love Daisy. Yes we all get it. People fall in love for bad reasons, and this ends in tragedy. You should fall in love with real people, not your allusion of what you think these people are like. But you shouldn't waste your time reading stupid stories about stupid people that do stupid things. From an Amazon review: "But unhappy endings need not be the same thing as nihilism. Gatsby's universe is a highly nihilistic one, a world so far gone that even the saddest ideals seem priceless simply for being ideals. Perhaps it's the kind of cynicism the book represents--it's not "grumpy old man" cynicism like Vonnegut or Twain, which at least feels earned and honest".

You should listen to Librivox

Reasons to agree: +2
  1. They are free, if you have a computer or MP3 player.
  2. Librivox has good books. The following books are good:
    1. The Grapes of Wrath
    2. A Christmas Carol, by Charles Dickens
    3. The Man Who Would be King by Rudyard Kipling
    4. The Tragedy Of Macbeth By William Shakespeare
    5.  Howards End By EM Forster
    6. Poetics By Aristotle
    7. Treasure Island By Robert Louis Stevenson
    8. The Awful German Language By Mark Twain
    9. The Sayings Of Confucius By Confucius
    10. Anna Karenina Book By Leo Tolstoy
    11. Les Miserables Volume By Victor Hugo
    12. Pride And Prejudice By Jane Austen
    13.  The Autobigraphy Of Benjamin Franklin Ed By Frank Woodworth Pine
    14. The Return Of Sherlock Holmes By Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
    15. Great Expectations By Charles Dickens
    16. The Secret Garden By Frances Hodgson Burnett
Reasons to disagree: -2
  1. Each Chapter has the "This is a librivox recording..." thing
  2. Listening to a book on tape may be more distracting than listening to music


The Grapes of Wrath is not a great book

Score: 2 + 2 +1 +3 = 8
  1. Reasons to agree:
    1. Good books should be relevant to you. The Grapes of Wrath is not very relevant today 
      1. Reasons to agree: + 2
        1. Poverty in America has drastically changed from the time of the Great Depression
          1. Reasons to agree: + 3
            1. We have food stamps.
            2. We now have disability
            3.  Kids are not starving to death in America in more. 
        2. Yes we all know that things were tough. The great depression was hard. Life sucked. But life has always sucked. Why should I read about it now? People live like that overseas. 
    2. Tragedies with no hope are great at pointing out how wonderful the author is, but there is often little reason to read them.
      1. Reasons to agree: + 1
        1. Why waste your time learning about depressing stuff? Life is short. Write about your own problems. Better yet, try to fix your problems. But why read about other people's problems? Why read about fake other people's problems? If you want to read about other people's problems, why not read about important real people from history? Better yet, why not read about people who overcame problems like Lincoln, Washington, John Adams?

Belief: We should develop an alternative to The Boy Scouts of America.

The Boy Scouts should improve their requirements to reach their first advancement category.

(Score: 1 + 2 + 7 + 3 = 13)

  • Reasons to agree: 2

    • 1.1 The Boy Scouts should not require people to be "properly dressed" in a Boy Scout Uniform in order to advance to their first rank of "tenderfoot".
      (Score: 6+3-1-1 = 7)

      • Reasons to agree: 6

        • You have to go through a monopoly to purchase a Boy Scout Uniform. Monopolies are bad.

        • The uniforms are a racket.

        • Even if uniforms were important, they should be a "nice to have" not a requirement.

        • The belief that what you wear is important is unnecessary. As long as clothing is clean and shows respect for yourself and your troop, it shouldn't matter.

        • There is no strong reason to require uniforms. (Score: +3-1 = 2)

          • Reasons to agree: +3

            • The Boy Scouts of America are judged on outward appearances rather than their values.
            • The organization didn't adapt marketing strategies to appeal to modern youth.
            • Not everyone understands or values the military-style structure.
            • Grown men in the military are less affected by peer pressure than teenagers.
          • Reasons to disagree: -1

            • The military still uses uniforms.
      • 1.2 There is something somewhat awkward about getting merit badges and wearing them on a sash.
        (Score: -1)

        • Reasons to disagree: -1
          • The military still uses uniforms, so some aspects of uniformity are beneficial.

2. We need an alternative to the Boy Scouts that does not emphasize camping.

(Score: +1 -2 +4 = +3)

  • Reasons to agree: +1

    • 2.1 You can enjoy nature without sleeping in it.
      (Score: +4)

      • Reasons to agree: +4
        • You can go on hikes and appreciate nature without sleeping in the woods.
        • Bird watching in the city can be just as fulfilling as camping.
        • Canoeing on a river or lake allows for nature appreciation without requiring a tent.
        • Fishing offers a way to enjoy nature without staying overnight outdoors.
  • Reasons to disagree: -2

    • Camping allows youth to experience what is truly necessary for survival.
    • Living in a primitive environment provides insight into self-sufficiency.
    • Cooking and sleeping in the outdoors can be an enriching experience.

Background:

Below are the first advancement category "tenderfoot rank requirements".

Reasons to agree:

    • There should be youth groups for people who don't like camping.

    • The Boy Scouts have many great elements, but members should have the flexibility to choose their level of involvement rather than making a long-term commitment.

      • The Boy Scouts have a lot of great aspects.

        • Reasons to disagree:
          • The Boy Scouts of America offer valuable merit badges that benefit personal development.

Reasons to agree:

  1. The Boy Scouts should improve their first advancement requirements

    • The current requirements may not reflect modern values or priorities.
    • Certain skills, such as uniform requirements and traditional camping, may not appeal to all youth.
    • Alternative organizations could allow for more flexibility in skill development.
  2. The uniform requirement is problematic

    • You must go through a monopoly to purchase a Boy Scout uniform.
    • Uniforms are expensive and may not be necessary for personal development.
    • Prioritizing outward appearances over core scouting values can discourage participation.
  3. A youth organization should not emphasize only camping

    • Many valuable skills can be learned outside of camping.
    • Urban environments offer learning opportunities such as leadership, civic engagement, and technology.
    • Some youth prefer nature activities that do not involve overnight stays.
  4. The Boy Scouts' structure may be outdated

    • Their reputation has been damaged by past controversies.
    • They may not effectively adapt to modern youth interests.
    • A new organization could focus on inclusivity, innovation, and modern skill-building.

Reasons to disagree:

  1. The Boy Scouts already offer a structured and valuable program

    • They provide leadership training and lifelong skills.
    • Many youth benefit from the structured rank advancements.
    • Instead of creating a new organization, the Boy Scouts could be reformed.
  2. Camping is an important skill

    • Camping teaches self-reliance and teamwork.
    • Experiencing nature firsthand is valuable for personal growth.
    • Removing camping from the curriculum would take away a core strength.
  3. The uniform serves a purpose

    • The military still uses uniforms to instill discipline and unity.
    • The uniform reinforces identity and commitment to the organization.
    • If affordability is an issue, alternative solutions (e.g., second-hand uniforms) could be implemented.

Interest/Motivation of those who agree:

  1. Advocates for diversity in youth organizations.
  2. Parents seeking more inclusive and flexible alternatives for their children.
  3. Individuals who find traditional scouting outdated or inaccessible.
  4. Those interested in modernized leadership training that integrates technology and civic engagement.

Interest/Motivation of those who disagree:

  1. Traditionalists who believe the Boy Scouts' structure is effective.
  2. Former scouts who value their experience and wish to preserve it.
  3. Supporters of the character-building aspects of the Boy Scouts.
  4. People who see the Boy Scouts as an established institution worth reforming rather than replacing.

Shared Interests Between Those Who Agree and Disagree:

  1. Desire for youth to develop strong leadership and survival skills.
  2. Interest in character-building and teamwork.
  3. Belief in outdoor and hands-on learning experiences.
  4. Commitment to mentoring young people and preparing them for the future.

Opposing Interests (Key Obstacles Preventing Resolution):

  1. Differing views on whether the Boy Scouts can or should be reformed.
  2. Disagreements on whether uniforms are an essential component.
  3. Conflicts between tradition and modernization.
  4. Differing attitudes toward camping as a fundamental part of the experience.

Evidence that agrees:

  1. Studies on youth engagement showing changing interests in extracurricular activities.
  2. Reports on financial and legal challenges faced by the Boy Scouts.
  3. Evidence of the success of alternative youth programs like 4-H, Civil Air Patrol, or coding academies.

Evidence that disagrees:

  1. Data showing the positive long-term impact of the Boy Scouts on leadership and career success.
  2. Case studies of successful Boy Scouts reform efforts.
  3. Reports demonstrating strong public support for traditional scouting.

Most Likely Benefits:

  1. Greater inclusivity in youth programs.
  2. More modernized learning opportunities (e.g., technology, entrepreneurship).
  3. More flexibility in participation and skill selection.
  4. Avoiding past controversies associated with the Boy Scouts.

Most Likely Costs:

  1. Difficulty in building a new national youth organization from scratch.
  2. Potential division among those who support youth development programs.
  3. Loss of tradition and established scouting methods.
  4. Uncertainty in securing long-term funding and public support.

Books that agree:

  1. The Death of Expertise – Discusses the evolution of institutions and resistance to change.
  2. Tribe by Sebastian Junger – Highlights alternative ways of building youth communities.

Books that disagree:

  1. On My Honor – A defense of the Boy Scouts' structure and values.
  2. Be Prepared: A History of Scouting – Details the benefits and evolution of scouting programs.

Local, Federal, and International Laws that agree:

  1. Laws promoting youth education and leadership programs.
  2. Policies supporting non-profit alternatives to established institutions.

Laws that disagree:

  1. Policies reinforcing the Boy Scouts’ role in schools and communities.

Songs that agree:

  1. “Changes” by David Bowie – Reflects the need for evolution in institutions.
  2. “Breakaway” by Kelly Clarkson – Represents the desire for new opportunities.

Songs that disagree:

  1. “Tradition” from Fiddler on the Roof – Celebrates the importance of longstanding customs.

People who agree:

  1. Advocates for alternative youth leadership programs.
  2. Parents and former scouts seeking modernization.

People who disagree:

  1. Leaders within the Boy Scouts organization.
  2. Traditionalists who value the existing scouting experience.

Web Pages that agree:

  1. Articles discussing the flaws in scouting and the need for alternatives.

Web Pages that disagree:

  1. Reports defending the legacy and benefits of the Boy Scouts.

Objective Criteria for Assessing the Validity of this Belief:

  1. How many young people are interested in alternative programs?
  2. Are new programs able to provide the same or better leadership training?
  3. Can alternative organizations sustain themselves financially?

Most Likely Root Cause of Associated Problems:

  1. Resistance to change within long-standing institutions.
  2. Lack of modernized youth programs that balance tradition and innovation.

Conclusion:

  • The argument for an alternative to the Boy Scouts is based on a need for modernization, inclusivity, and flexibility.
  • The argument against it emphasizes the value of tradition and existing leadership structures.
  • The best path forward may be a reformation of scouting programs rather than a full replacement.

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