LDS Church members have inaccurate understandings of their history.

Joseph said he was visited by an angel in his room, but he couldn't have, because he shared the room with his brothers, and they would have seeing it. -2

Reasons to agree: +1

1. Joseph intentionally misled people about his "visit" by the angel Moroni.

Reasons to disagree: -3

1. If you believe Joseph had a supernatural experience, he could have had a real vision from God, but it could have been while he slept.


2. God has to modify you in order to be able to see spiritual things. LDS people people call this being translated. We cannot, under normal circumstances, perceive spiritual matter or things with normal vision. (D&C 131:7-8) Joseph had to be blessed to hear and see a divine messenger. Others were not so blessed, and so would hear and see nothing. If God can send an angel he can keep the audience to that which he wishes.


3. You don't have to assume that God actively dulled his family member's senses in order to have an Angel speak to Joseph, only that Joseph's senses were enriched.

Reasons to agree: +1

Reasons to disagree: -3

Score: -2

Joseph Smith lied about an Angel visiting him -2

Reasons to agree: +1

1. Joseph said he was visited by an angel in his room, but he couldn't have, because he shared the room with his brothers, and they would have seeing it. -3

Reasons to disagree

1. 
   

Reasons to agree: +1

Reasons to disagree: -0

Reasons to disagree with reasons to agree: -3

Reasons to agree: +1 -3 = -2

Some critics of the LDS church will not consider the possibility that the LDS church may be true +2

Reasons to agree

1. It never crossed their minds.


2. It seems so uncool

Score:

# of reasons to agree: 2

# of reasons to disagree: -0

# of reasons to agree with reasons to agree: 0

# of reasons to agree with reasons to disagree: -0

Total Idea Score: 2

"Some things that are true are not very useful." Elder Boyd K. Packer

Background: I am trying to dissect the following article: “The Mantle Is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect” by Elder Boyd K. Packer, BYU Studies 21, no. 3 (1981).

The statement is this: "There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not. Some things that are true are not very useful..."

http://byustudies.byu.edu/PDFLibrary/21.3Packer.pdf

Reasons to agree (with packer)

1. 
   

Reasons to disagree (with packer)

1. Joseph Smith taught the following in May 1843, later recorded in Doctrine and Covenants 131:6: “It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance.” So why is Packer trying to keep some truths from us?
2. We should be allowed to determine for ourselves what is "useful".

LDS Church leader Elder Boyd K. Packer did not show enough respect for the truth when used the fact that, "If not properly written or properly taught [LDS History] may be a faith destroyer" as a reason to hide uncomfortable facts.

Background: I am trying to dissect the following article: “The Mantle Is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect” by Elder Boyd K. Packer, BYU Studies 21, no. 3 (1981).



Reasons to agree: +2

1. "Properly taught" in this sense can mean nothing else but to hide the negative, and exaggerate the positive.


2. Gordon B. Hinckley disagreed and said: "Well, we have nothing to hide. Our history is an open book. They may find what they are looking for, but the fact is the history of the church is clear and open and leads to faith and strength and virtues." ~ Dec. 25, 2005 interview with The Associated Press

"There is no such thing as an accurate, objective history of the LDS Church without consideration of the spiritual powers that attend this work" BKP

Background: I am trying to dissect the following article: “The Mantle Is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect” by Elder Boyd K. Packer, BYU Studies 21, no. 3 (1981).

Reasons to agree

1. 
   

Reasons to disagree

1. Any church could say this, but if they all set logic aside, their is no way to advocate one above the other. People will be forever trapped within a certain faith tradition, without saying that one is better than another in a logical, informed sort of way. You just have fru-fru- and la-de-da to back you up, and everyone just ignores anything the other guys say, because they aren't looking at the world through the correct contact lenses.
2. If spiritual powers attended the work of the LDS church, you would see more blessings in the lives of its members.
3. If spiritual powers attended the work of the LDS church its leaders would have said fewer stupid things.
4. If spiritual powers attended the work of the LDS church its leaders would have made fewer mistakes.
5. The spiritual powers of the church, are promised to bring practical results, and so if the church has spiritual powers, they should be measurable in improved lifestyle. The church says it is a very practical church. Their is no separation of spiritual and temporal commandments. Work, life, and death, and everything in between are spiritual. We accept truth from any source. Life processes themselves teach us spiritual lessons. The Gospel is supposed to help you live a better happier life. That the special gospel that we teach is especially good a creating a zion-like society. We tell our members that we have prophets to lead us, and help us avoid the problems that the rest of the world struggles with, however this sets the church up to be easily measured by sociologist, and it turns out that we don't have lower divorce, suicide, child abuse, and Utah has twice the national average of per-capita antidepressant use.
6. We need real, tangible ways of measuring the effect of religion in people's lives. Saying that you have to measure a church by the spirit, means that you measure it from person experience, and anecdotal experience is not as trustworthy statistical studies.