Romney: Giuliani's NYC 'Sanctuary' for Illegal Immigrants

giuliani romney
(Reuters)

Romney: Giuliani's NYC 'Sanctuary' for Illegal Immigrants

Republican Presidential Contender Calls Giuliani's New York a 'Sanctuary' for Illegals

By JAKE TAPPER with RON CLAIBORNE

BETTENDORF, Iowa, Aug. 8, 2007 —

In one of the strongest conflicts yet between Republican presidential front-runners, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney attacked rival Rudy Giuliani Wednesday, implying that Giuliani supported illegal immigration when he was mayor of New York.

"If you look at lists compiled on Web sites of sanctuary cities, New York is at the top of the list when Mayor Giuliani was mayor," Romney said at the Abbey Hotel here. "He instructed city workers not to provide information to the federal government that would allow them to enforce the law. New York City was the poster child for sanctuary cities in the country."

The Giuliani campaign issued a statement rejecting the charge. Campaign communications director Katie Levinson said, "I am not even sure we should weigh in on this, given Mitt Romney may change his mind later today about it. Mitt Romney is as wrong about Mayor Giuliani's position on illegal immigration as he was when he last mischaracterized the mayor's record and later had to apologize. New York is the safest large city in America since Mayor Giuliani turned it around -- it is not a haven for illegality of any kind. The mayor's record speaks for itself."

New York became a sanctuary city, where illegal immigrants enjoy some measure of protection, through an executive order signed by Mayor Ed Koch in 1989, five years before Giuliani became mayor in January 1994.

But if Giuliani inherited the policy, he reissued it and seemed to embrace it.

At a June 1994 press conference, Giuliani decried anti-illegal immigration policies as unfair and hostile.

"Some of the hardest-working and most productive people in this city are undocumented aliens," Giuliani said at the time. "If you come here and you work hard and you happen to be in an undocumented status, you're one of the people who we want in this city. You're somebody that we want to protect, and we want you to get out from under what is often a life of being like a fugitive, which is really unfair."

At a speech in Minneapolis in 1996, Giuliani defended Koch's executive order, that, in his words "protects undocumented immigrants in New York City from being reported to the INS while they are using city services that are critical for their health and safety, and for the health and safety of the entire city."

"There are times when undocumented immigrants must have a substantial degree of protection," Giuliani said.

Romney Leads Iowa, Giuliani Out Front Nationally

Giuliani leads in national polls of the Republican candidates, but Romney is the current front-runner in Iowa polls of likely Republican caucus-goers, and is favored to win this weekend's straw poll in Ames.

Cracking down on illegal immigration is a compelling issue for conservative Republicans.

"You have to follow the law, and honor and respect the law," Romney said Wednesday. "And if you don't do that and create the perception that we welcome people coming into our cities or communities that are here illegally & you attract people into this country to come illegally. That's why we went from 3 million illegal aliens to 12 million illegal aliens."

Romney described Giuliani as having an "open door policy that said, 'Come on in, we want you if you're undocumented and this will be a zone of protection. You don't have to worry about city officials providing information to the federal government.'"

Romney first leveled the "sanctuary city" charge last week, trying to contrast Giuliani's policy as mayor with his own as governor, saying he'd denied driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.

Monday in Clear Lake, Giuliani protested, saying, "Frankly, that designation would not apply to New York City. What you got to look at in fairness to is the overall results -- and no city in terms of crime, safety, dealing with illegality of all different kinds has done a better job than New York City."

Earlier this year, Giuliani came out against the immigration reform compromise that failed in the Senate, saying he opposed "amnesty." He emphasizes increasing the number of border guards, building a high-tech fence and a national tamperproof ID card for immigrants.

But as he tries to appeal to conservative voters, Giuliani is often competing with his own past views.

Giuliani's History on Immigration

Giuliani has long faulted the federal government for not doing enough to secure the borders. But liberal immigrants' rights groups generally give him high marks during his tenure for sensitivity to their issues.

In 1996, Giuliani compared "the anti-immigration issue that's now sweeping the country" to "the Chinese Exclusionary Act, or the Know-Nothing movement -- these were movements that encouraged Americans to fear foreigners, to fear something that is different and to stop immigration."

That same year he sued the federal government for new provisions in federal immigration laws that would encourage government employees to turn in illegal immigrants seeking benefits from the city.

He said educating the children of illegal immigrants made sense.

"The reality is that they are here, and they're going to remain here. The choice becomes for a city what do you do? Allow them to stay on the streets or allow them to be educated? The preferred choice from the point of view of New York City is to be educated," Giuliani claimed.

For his part, Romney also seems to have had a much more lenient view of illegal immigrants than his current rhetoric would suggest. And while Giuliani may be placing a different emphasis on his immigration views, Romney seems to have changed his in some cases.

For 10 years, Romney used the services of a landscaping company for his Belmont, Mass., estate that hired illegal workers from Guatemala, workers who told the Boston Globe that Romney never inquired about their legal status.

While Romney was governor, the commonwealth of Massachusetts became one of the six states with the largest growth in unauthorized migrant population, from 2002 to 2004, according to the Pew Hispanic Center, with somewhere between 200,000-250,000 new illegal immigrants. Romney was governor from January 2003 until 2007.

Romney in the past voiced support for immigration reform bills far more liberal than the 2007 bill.

In 2005, he called immigration reform efforts by Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and President Bush that provided a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants "reasonable proposals" that were "very different than amnesty. & It's saying you could work your way into becoming a legal resident of the country by working here without taking benefits and then applying and then paying a fine."

In 2006, Romney said "those that are here paying taxes and not taking government benefits should begin a process toward application for citizenship, as they would from their home country."

McCain's 2007 efforts at an immigration reform compromise are seen as one of the main reasons for his recent woes in the polls.

Jan Simmonds and Matt Stuart contributed to this report.


These kinds of stories chaps my hide

"Romney, who did not serve in Vietnam due to his Mormon missionary
work and a high draft lottery number"

These kinds of stories chaps my hide!  It seems to elude that because
Mitt is a Mormon and was on a mission that that somehow excluded him
from serving in Vietnam.  The reason he didn't go to Vietnam was
because he had a high draft lottery number!  It had nothing to do
with him being on a mission....

re: Romney’s Radical Roots from Mark Hemingway

I don't know if in the long run the fact that Jan recorded Romney's off air conversation will hurt him more than it helped him. I'm not really trying to push the transcript, because I think it will help Romney. I'm trying to push it because people are going to lie, misrepresent, and oversimplify what happened in that booth. While Mark spent all day spinning his thoughts about what Romney said, and inserting himself into the story, I spent most of the day transcribing what actually happened. Who spent their time better? Me or Mark?

Who cares what Mark thinks about what happened. I think it is more important that we first nail down the facts of what happened, so please watch the video, one more time and help me correct any mistakes in the transcript.

It will be a good use of your time.

(see previous post if you don't know what I'm talking about)

Romney’s Radical Roots?

This is such a poorly written article, I am surprised it got on National Review:

It says,

That's because Romney's argument with the Iowa talk-radio host starts with the two discussing their shared affinity for W. Cleon Skousen. "You and I share a common affection for the late Cleon Skousen," the radio host says. The former governor agrees, affirming Skousen was his professor and when the radio host professes his fondness for Skousen's book The Making of America, while he acknowledges he hasn't read it, Mitt quickly says "That's worth reading."

This is demonstratively not true. Romney asks , "That's worth reading?"

To which Jan Mickelson responds to the question, " Oh Absolutely."

Here is my transcript of the interview:

http://myclob.pbwiki.com/Jan-Mickelson

But it was a question, and that is why I typed the transcript. Watch the video again, Mark.

Also, when Jan said, "You and I share a common affection for the late Cleon Skousen." Romney was VERY non committal. 

Back to my transcript:

Governor Mitt Romney: Mmm.

That is why it is important to have a good transcript of the interview. Because it is such a big deal, and people are watching it so much, we need to be ready for all the spin people are going to give it with the facts of what it does and does not say.

This is what I have so far:

Jan Mickelson: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM, Good morning Sir, Welcome aboard.

 

MR: Thank you good to be with you this morning. Marshaltown, is one of my favorite places. I used to work in marshal town.

 

Jan Mickelson: As a what?

 

MR: I worked there as a consultant to fisher controls. It was one of my first assignments as a young consultant and I made the treck, gosh it was a long period of time, back and forth from Dimoin to Marshaltown. I worked for a guy named Larry Sully who was head of that division. He told me I was going to come to love the people of Iowa and he was right.

 

Jan Mickelson: You have a photographic memory.

 

MR: Not Really. But there are a few things you can remember such as at Rubs, there is a place called Rubs, in Monture and I sued to go there…

 

Jan Mickelson: Did you cook your own

 

MR: I did cook my own.

 

Jan Mickelson: Are you any good?

 

Jan Mickelson: No now and then..I had to keep taking my…I got these real think filet menoins, cause that's what I wanted,  you know you cook it and cook it and it looked like charcoal on the outside, and I got back to my table and it was too raw, and you had to go back, this was…

 

Jan Mickelson: You made your own stake go back?

 

MR: Of course. This…

 

Jan Mickelson: You probably didn't even tip yourself.

 

MR: This was when Rubs had about 10 tables. It is now a much bigger interprise, but this was back, oh gosh, probably in the late 70s.

 

Jan Mickelson: OK. They have wonderful soccer field up there too, Ed Fisher built for the community. They are a progressive community in one sense, but they, uh, anyway that's a different story, because you have talked about immigration before (who hasn't) and immigration has had a huge effect on marshaltown and a lot of rural Iowa communities. Well, welcome abourd sir,

 

MR: Thank You

 

Jan Mickelson: You've been on an ask me anything tour.

 

MR: Yeah

 

Jan Mickelson: Does that apply to me?

 

MR: You can ask whatever you like but I will dodge some of your questions

 

Jan Mickelson: Because our time is extraordinarily limited can I just dispense with the rest of the niceties…

 

MR: Absolutely.

 

Jan Mickelson: and go right to the tough questions.

 

MR: Yeah.

 

Jan Mickelson: At the, ah, um, because you are right now, ah, according to recent public opinion polls running number one in the republican side here, ah, you are the candidate to beat here in Iowa.

 

MR: You know I hope I'm doing well here. I think we've counted and I've been at over 200 events in Iowa and I've met a lot of great people. We've got a great team, doing our best, and hopefully making progress.

 

Jan Mickelson: You and I share a common affection for the late Cleon Skouson.

 

MR: Mmm.

 

Jan Mickelson: The last I talked to you you said he was one of your instructors (does that mean Romney has an effecting for him?)

 

MR: Exactly

 

Jan Mickelson: He was also one of my instructors, via a book he wrote on the making of America. It was a wonderful commentary on the US constitution. It combines Madison's notes with every codicil in the constitution. It tells you exactly what original intent is.

 

(First of all Jan, there wasn't one real intent. The constitution was agreed apon by many different people with many different intents)

 

MR: Isn't that something? That is a book I had not read, and it's worth reading?

 

Jan Mickelson: Oh Absolutely.  

 

Jan Mickelson: You can never be a hustled by a politician again (ooh, magic! You have the keys to knowledge, Jan! You have politician's kryptonite.) If you've actually read the original intent of the framers (Jan seems to think that he is the only one who has ever done this. Mitt Romney graduated with honors from Harvard Law school. Do you think politicians like Mitt Romney, have never read the founding fathers? Here is a news flash for you Jan. Most politicians have probably read the founding fathers more than you have.)

 

MR: Wouldn't it be nice if our supreme court followed the intent of the constitution and the framers, instead of using the constitution as a springboard as some attempt to do.

 

Jan Mickelson: Is Rowe vs. Wade the law of the land?

 

MR: It is now. It is…

 

Jan Mickelson: You just flunked Cleon Skousan's test

 

(What an arrogant prick. Let's play stupid games with semantics)

 

MR: It was improperly decided, I'm sorry to…

 

Jan Mickelson: Cleon is spinning in his grave SIR.

 

MR: I'm sorry to violate the Cleon Scouson test, I'm not familiar with it.

 

Jan Mickelson: Well no the point is the Supreme Court doesn't make law, it can't make law. There are only 3 sources of law and the court is not one of them.

 

(A lot of people have spoken of Jan Mickelson's arrogance, in telling Mitt Romney what HIS religion believes. I think Jan's arrogance manifest itself most because Jan is not a lawyer, and he has in front of him someone Mitt Romney who graduated at the top of class from Harvard Law school, and Jan think that he can teach mitt Romney about how Law is made? Look you now name 3rd rate talk show host, have some humility. This "I know everything act" is pretty lame.)

 

MR: We obviously apply what the Supreme Court tells us me must do, and in my opinion…

 

(Here is where Mitt Romney starts getting interrupted with every sentence he tries to speak)

 

Jan Mickelson: Even if it's unconstitutional? Even if they just make it up?

 

MR: That, unfortunately, is a decision that the court has the first choice of making… And then

 

(Back to Cleon)

 

Jan Mickelson: You flunked the 2nd Cleon Skousan test.

 

MR: And then you have redress. This is what happened in my state. The court said that people of the same gender, under the constitution, are entitled to marry…

 

Jan Mickelson: They were wrong.

 

MR: My constitution was written by John Adams in Massachusetts…

 

Jan Mickelson: Yes

 

MR: …and John

 

Jan Mickelson: which excluded legislating from the bench

 

MR: exactly

 

Jan Mickelson: … and so your duty and obligation at that point was to say thank you for sharing, its not law.

 

MR: And the redress at..

 

Jan Mickelson: that's cleaon Skouson's opinion.

 

(As though just because Mitt Romney and Cleon are both Mormon, they should both agree?)

 

(Being incredible deferential)

 

MR: That's Cleaon's option… Our redress at that stage is open to us because the constitution does lay out how to overtern a court decision. In our case its through ballet initiatives and an amendment to our state constitution, which is a process we began and are still fighting for in my state. There are ways of having the people step above the court... what was interesting…

 

Jan Mickelson: But if the court was lawless… if its assuming legislative authority…you don't even have to invoke the redresses you mentioned you just say that is null and void on the face because they are out of their legal jurisdictions…and you don't have to sign anything overwhich they have legal jurisdiction.

 

(Does Jan think saying the word "jurisdiction" over and over makes him a lawyer?

 

This is MassResistance propaganda, and it is completely stupid. It is embarrassing that Jan Mickelson got a hold of it (probably from Brownback) and even more embarrassing that he believes it.)

 

MR: Its not a circumstance I would look forward to…

 

Jan Mickelson: Oh I would

 

MR: … having to confront.

 

Jan Mickelson: I would LOVE to…

 

(And here it is that we get to the real point of the interview. Jan Mickelson gets real loud and pompous here, because he day dreams of being in power.)

 

Jan Mickelson: I'm only speaking for myself here, Mr. Governor, but I want a president who will tell the supreme court when it leaves its constitutional boundaries, to go take a Flying leap, and meet me in the back and we'll settle this like men. Because that is what this country is crying for, and we don't have to amend the constitution aberrant supreme court rulings, if the guy at top, and the political class…

 

(You can tell this guy has psychological problems. He hates "the political class", he daydreams about what he would do if he was in power. He gets very flippant sounding when he says, "sir" or "Governor". He has problems.

 

Jan Mickelson: will assume their constitutional authority, according to Cleon Skouson.

 

MR: I hear what Cleon is saying, I would worry about a circumstance where a president would decide which court decisions…

 

Jan Mickelson: You mean like Adams, and Washingtons, and Jefferson

 

MR: No. Clinton. Alright? I worry about a Hillary Clinton saying, "I don't like that court decision, and I disagree with it, and they've gone on the wrong side, and I've decided I'm going to take a different course…

 

Jan Mickelson: Well there is a different branch of Government too.

 

MR: I understand. I'm not terribly enthused about Harry Reid either. And so what I tell you in my view the right course for Rowe v. Wade, is to have it overturned, and to have it overturned by a court which includes additional justices like Roberts and Alito, and that is the way to have the states finally have the authority that states were intended to have, which is this should be a matter of state decisions not federal decision.

 

Jan Mickelson: What would you do then… On a personal basis you have made a transistion. I'm not going to play the sound bites, but you have been on the record a couple of times in favor of abortion…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What They're Really Saying About Governor Mitt Romney At The Des Moines, Iowa GOP Debate

What They're Really Saying About Governor Mitt Romney At The Des Moines, Iowa GOP Debate
Sunday, Aug 05, 2007 11:25 AM EDT

The Washington Post's Chris Cillizza: "Former Gov. Mitt Romney is the frontrunner in Iowa and he's at the center of the debate at its start." (Chris Cillizza, "Republican Debate In Iowa Begins," Washington Post's The Fix, http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/ 8/5/07)

Time's Mark Halperin: "I think Governor Romney had the best performance overall. He's been strong in all the debates, comes very well prepared." (ABC WOI-DM's "Vote 2008 Special," 8/5/07)

- Time's Mark Halperin: "Mitt Romney gets an A. I couldn't find a lot of things to criticize in his performance. He faced some tough questions, but he did a good job handling it. It's becoming cliché to say, but he looks and sounds like a president. For a lot of voters that's important." (ABC WOI-DM's "Vote 2008 Special," 8/5/07)

ABC News Political Director David Chalian: "I think Mitt Romney had a really strong performance. ... I think from then on out, he had a very smooth, solid performance, and continues to show why he is leading in these early states." (ABC WOI-DM's "Vote 2008 Special," 8/5/07)

The Politico's Jonathan Martin: "The pre-packaged one-liner of the morning. At least so far. Romney on Obama's desire to meet with enemy leaders and hawkish views on Pakistan: 'He's gone from Jane Fonda to Dr. Strangelove in one week.'" (Jonathan Martin, "The View From Across The Street," The Politico, http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/ 8/5/07)

- National Review's Kathryn Jean Lopez: "I didn't know where [Romney]'d go from the McCain, Giuliani start there.... hitting Obama "from Jane Fonda to Dr. Strangelove" was pretty funny, and to point. And a good ending on the military and the surge." (Kathryn Jean Lopez, "The Corner," National Review Blog, http://corner.nationalreview.com 6/5/07)

The Politico's Jonathan Martin: "Republican pollster and author Frank Luntz and Fox News have set up a dial group of 29 GOP primary voters from the Des Moines area ... Asked who was winning the debate so far, about a dozen said Romney." (Jonathan Martin, "The View From Across The Street," The Politico, http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/ 8/5/07)

- The Politico's Jonathan Martin: "One small but influential group of voters -- a bit like Iowa itself, come to think of it -- had Mitt Romney winning at the halfway point." (Jonathan Martin, "The View Across The Street," The Politico, 8/5/07)

National Review's Kathryn Jean Lopez: "From the "normal American" focus group that just dropped by my Corner Debate Watching Headquarters ... "Romney seems the most pleasant and presidential." Coming off that YouTube fighting with that radio host, he seems like a guy revving for the fight. (Kathryn Jean Lopez, "The Corner," National Review Blog, http://corner.nationalreview.com 6/5/07)

National Review's Kathryn Jean Lopez: "'Moving Islam toward modernity'... Romney's attitude sounds a little like Ronald Reagan's cultural exchanges with the Soviet Union. And it strikes me as a real-world approach taking into consideration the problems we face run deep." (Kathryn Jean Lopez, "The Corner," National Review Blog, http://corner.nationalreview.com 6/5/07)

ABC News Political Radar: "Romney has a pretty effective -- if not down-the-line conservative -- answer on healthcare: 'We have to have our citizens insured.' And he took a subtle jab at Giuliani's new health care plan, which relies on tax breaks to encourage individuals to obtain health coverage." (ABC News, "Live Blogging From Sunday's Democratic Debate," http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/, 8/5/07)

ABC News Political Radar: "That Romney is smooth, smooth, smooth on the stage -- a really nice disource [sic] on foreign policy..." "Live Blogging From Sunday's Republican Debate," ABCNews' Political Radar, http://blogs.abcnews.com, Posted 8/5/07)

A Statement From Senator Jim DeMint (SC)
Sunday, Aug 05, 2007 10:39 AM EDT

"Mitt Romney again demonstrated why he will make a great President. He has the business experience from outside Washington to take difficult issues head-on while continuing to use innovative solutions to secure America's future."


- Senator Jim DeMint (R-SC)
August 5, 2007
A Statement From Former Lt. Governor Toni Jennings
Sunday, Aug 05, 2007 10:37 AM EDT

"In this morning's fourth Republican Presidential debate, Governor Romney again demonstrated that he is the most qualified candidate for President of the United States. Governor Romney won today's debate by clearly outlining his optimistic vision for our nation and focusing on substantive policies that will strengthen our military, economy and families. At this critical time for America, it has never been more important to ensure we have a strong, conservative and principled leader at the helm of our government. As we witnessed this morning, Governor Romney is the right choice to meet the new generation of challenges we face."


- Former Lt. Governor Toni Jennings
August 5, 2007
A Statement From Iowa Chairman Doug Gross
Sunday, Aug 05, 2007 10:32 AM EDT

"In a crowded field, Governor Romney stood out as the only candidate substantively addressing the challenges confronting our nation today. With his vision of a stronger America, Governor Romney has proven that he is the leader we need in the White House. He is also the only major candidate fully committed to the Iowa process and speaking to the concerns of Iowa families. Today's debate was a great start to a week that will conclude at the Iowa Straw Poll."

- Chairman Doug Gross
August 5, 2007
A Statement From Tom Rath
Sunday, Aug 05, 2007 10:31 AM EDT

"Governor Romney once again demonstrated his leadership ability, depth of policy knowledge, and vision for a strong America during today's debate. Time and time again, in town after town across New Hampshire and across the country, Governor Romney has proven he is the candidate most qualified, most capable, and most able to turn Washington around. Governor Romney is the candidate who can keep our nation's military, economy, and families strong and we need him in the White House."


- New Hampshire Senior Adviser Tom Rath
August 5, 2007
Governor Mitt Romney Outlines His Vision To Lead America
Sunday, Aug 05, 2007 10:30 AM EDT

This morning, Romney for President Communications Director Matt Rhoades released the following statement on the fourth Republican presidential debate:

"This morning, Governor Romney won the debate by once again demonstrating why he is the best candidate to lead our nation forward. He spoke directly to the challenges facing America and what we must do to strengthen our economy, military and families. Governor Romney is the only candidate with the vision to build a stronger America.

"We look forward to communicating Governor Romney's message of conservative change this week through the Iowa Straw Poll and into the January Caucuses."

Stats: Gov. Romney Interview With Jan Mickelson

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