Dec 5, 2007
Huckabee Won't Give Views on "Mormons"
Yet a Southern Baptist President (Jimmy Carter) has already don just that, not only did he confirm that “Mormons” are Christians", but he chastised the Southern Baptist Convention for trying to characterizes them as non-Christians. “Too many leaders now, I think, in the Southern Baptist Convention and in other conventions, are trying to act as the Pharisees did who were condemned by Christ, in trying to define who can and who cannot be considered an acceptable person in the eyes of God," he said. "In other words, they're making judgments on behalf of God. I think that's wrong."
It’s sad when a Republican Candidate can’t convey the same religious tolerance as Democrat President did 10 years before.
Jul 26, 2007
Ravi Zacharias on a Mormon in the White House
Ravi Zacharias on a Mormon in the White House July 25, 2007
Posted by Paul Edwards in Ravi Zacharias , Mitt Romney, Mormonism. trackback
What we want is a politician who will understand the basic Judeo-Christian world view, and on the basis of that the moral laws of this nation are framed, and then run this country with the excellence of that which is recognized in a pluralistic society: the freedom to believe or to disbelieve, and the moral framework with which this was conducted: the sanctity of every individual life.
If we are looking for a minister to run this country just look back and see what havoc sometimes has happened when the church got aligned totally with the state. That's not what we want. We want political leadership that is wise, political leadership that frames itself on the moral framework of God and recognizing that you cannot dictate political ideaology to all of humanity. That's why Jesus refused to run for office, that was not what his mission was about. His mission was to change hearts.
But as you look back at the book of Kings and Chronicles you see one difference between every king: either they followed the Lord with their whole heart and blessing came; or they turned their backs upon God and then the entailments were there. And that's what will happen to this country.
Would we rather have someone who is a total secularist? Is that what people are asking for? Are we looking for someone who would run this the way he would run a bishoprick or something? I think we should ask the hard questions of everybody, be it Mitt Romney or anyone else and see if the framework of the value of human life and the moral framework of the Judeo-Christian world view, (which is the only moral framework under which this country could have been framed. It was not framed under a Hindu framework. It was not framed under a Muslim framework, not framed under a Buddhist or a naturalistic framework) that we are all created equal, that liberty and justice and all of those terms that I've given only make sense within the Judeo-Christian world view.
Created? Equal? Naturalism does not tell us we are equal. Naturalism does not tell us we are created. Liberty? Islam does not believe in the total liberty of the individual. Equal? Hinduism believes in the caste system. The Judeo-Christian world view is the only world view that could frame this country. And so I think as we elect, we go before God and see out of the candidates who will be the best one to represent the values and at the same time be a good leader for the country whose first responsibility should be to protect its citizens.
This is a great country and the challenges we face are immense to a point where this country could be totally mangled with the onslaught of a rabid atheism ala Christopher Hitchens, Samuel Harris, Richard Dawkins, those kinds of vociferous, acerbic writers in our time who would like to strip the notion of God completely from our culture. For Sam Harris to actually say if he had a magic wand to eradicate religion or eradicate rape, he would eradicate religion tells you the kind of mindset, and his book is in the top ten bestseller list of the New York Times. There's a rabid atheism out there and there's a rabid Islamic extremism out there and the secularism combined with that. I've responded to Sam Harris in a book which will be released in the early part of next year. I've said to him basically his choice is not going to be between religion and secularism. His choice is going to be between Islam and Christianity. Secularism has no staying power and has proven itself in Europe today. Europe is on the decline and on the demise and it's only a matter of time before Islam would take a foothold there unless the Christian world view reemerges.
Jul 6, 2007
THE DOUBLE STANDARDS ARE SIMPLY STAGGERING
Friday, July 06, 2007
THE DOUBLE STANDARDS ARE SIMPLY STAGGERING
I'm going to vent for a moment. Please forgive me.
Over the last couple of days I've been reading with interest Beliefnet's "Blogalogue" between Al Mohler and Orson Scott Card about whether Mormons are Christians. While the debate is fascinating on its own terms, it is -- as both participants acknowledge -- taking place only because of the presidential race and only because Mitt Romney has a serious chance to become President of the United States.
So I'm curious, when is Beliefnet going to schedule the debate between Al Mohler and any given pastor or priest in the Presbyterian Church USA, Episcopal Church, a lapsed Catholic, or some "I never darken the door of any church but I consider myself a really spiritual guy" theologian over whether their respective watered-down, unbiblical, faiths (complete with wholesale justifications of immoral and repulsive acts like adultery and abortion) are "Christian."
I respect the heck out of Al Mohler. He's one of the really great and insightful thinkers of the modern evangelical movement, but I just flat-out don't buy the following concern he expresses about Mitt Romney:
I am concerned that a Mormon in the White House would do much to serve the worldwide missionary cause of Mormonism. I do not worry that a President Romney would push that agenda from the White House. My concern is more about symbolism and perception.
Let me ask this (and it's a rhetorical question because the answer is obvious): What is a greater threat to orthodox Christianity? Mormon missionaries or our own theological and moral collapse? As we evangelicals circle our wagons around theology when it comes to the Mormon in the race, perhaps we need to understand that one of the great appeals of the Mormon religion is the fact that these guys tend to live what they believe. A bad Baptist is infinitely more damaging to evangelical Christianity than a good Mormon.
So we approach the Mitt Romney candidacy and worry about the "symbolism" of his election. But I'll tell you the symbolism that worries me more, and that is the symbolism of the evangelical movement embracing the lapsed, watered-down "Chrsitianity" of the other Republicans rather than vote for (eww!) that "Mormon guy."
Is it the case that "thinking" evangelicals should embrace candidates with multiple marriages, overlook adultery, and not worry about theological niceties so long as someone is at least in the pew next to us and mouthing the Nicene Creed (or used to sit in the pew next to us and used say the creed)? But at the same time it's just too much to vote for a Mormon who loves Jesus, loves his wife, has raised five great sons who love Jesus and love their wives, and shares every relevant moral and political value with us -- because, well, it's just symbolically a bad message?
We should never forget that debates like Beliefnet's "Blogalogue" take place in the real world and that tearing down the Mormon candidate invariably helps someone else. And that someone else is not Mike Huckabee. In 2007 and 2008, that someone else will be a person who does not share our moral and political values.
I'm sorry, but that makes no sense at all.
Jun 24, 2007
ABC: A Man of Faith Should Explain his Faith
ABC's Jake Tapper asserted on the network's This Week today that if Romney wishes to run as a man of faith, he should be expected to explain exactly what his faith requires him to believe. He raises the example of the Mormon beliefs regarding Jesus' eventual Second Coming to the earth. If Romney wishes to be taken seriously as a religious candidate, why can't he tell us exactly how the specific tenets of that religion inform his world view?
This position has a nice logical ring to it, but breaks down on examination. First of all, it is not entirely accurate to say that Romney is running as a man of faith. Rather, he has asserted that he is a religious person in line with the mainstream of America only as a defense to attacks that his Mormonism should disqualify him from office. This is not an affirmative talking point, but a defense against the anti-Mormon crowd. The fact that he is forced to highlight his religious values in order to stay in the race should not be read to open the door to discuss all of Mormon doctrine in a political campaign.
Secondly, note the example Jake Tapper brings up. So Romney is a man of faith, but why should that mean he needs to explain complex doctrines regarding the far off return of Jesus Christ? Surely John McCain, Mike Brownback and Mike Huckabee, if they take their brands of Christianity seriously, have their own beliefs about the mode and meaning of Jesus' return. Mitt Romney has been no more emphatic about his own religiosity than any of these men, so it should follow that we are entitled to hear their own thoughts on this "important" issue.
To imagine John McCain being forced to expound his beliefs on the Second Coming highlights the absurdity of the argument in the first place. Why on earth should voters care what John McCain thinks about how and where Jesus might someday appear on the earth? Is Mitt Romney any different?
Tapper's argument rests on the idea that voters are entitled to understand the basis for their candidates' claims. If you say you're a conservative, you should have to prove it, and if you say you're religious, you should have to back that up too. But there is a certain line to be drawn as well. Mitt Romney's belief about the location of Jesus' return will not inform his administration of the country in any way. His ideas about integrity, fidelity in marriage, and Christian kindness might. Ask away on those topics. But before you can expect him to discuss his beliefs on more obscure points of doctrine (on which topics all religions have their own positions), you'd better explain why those questions bear any relevance to voters.
So, the ball's in your court, Mr. Tapper– as soon as you can explain why voters should care about Mitt Romney's beliefs on the Second Coming of Jesus, Romney can be expected to detail exactly those beliefs. Deal?
Filed under: Jun 18, 2007
Sunni vs Shia: Brownback vs Romney?
Emma Nemecek, the southeastern Iowa field director for Brownback's presidential campaign, violated campaign policy when she forwarded the June 6 e-mail from an interest group raising the questions, the Brownback campaign said Sunday.
Nemecek asked a group of Iowa Republican leaders to help her fact-check a series of statements about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, including one that says: "Theologically, the only thing Christianity and the LDS church has in common is the name of Jesus Christ, and the LDS Jesus is not the same Jesus of the Christian faith."
Jun 17, 2007
Mitt Romney on Iowa PTV
I had to download the "real media player" to make it work, but it was well worth it. Anyone know how to put it on YouTube?
Duration: 27:46
Play Count: 1295
Other Formats: RealAudio MP3
Play in External Player
Episode: Iowa Press #3440 (See showtimes)
http://www.iptv.org/video/detail.cfm?id=343&from=related
Jun 8, 2007
Unfair questions for Mitt Romney
By unfair, I mean that I don't think other candidates have had to answer similar questions.
Abortion:
- George Stephanopoulos
- So do you now believe that abortion is murder?
- Should women who have abortions and doctors who perform them be jailed?
- If it's killing, why should states have leeway?
- What do you believe the punishment should be for an abortion?
- 2nd Debate
This one wasn't so much unfair as stupid, and out of left field.
America:
These ones arn't unfair just to Mitt Romney but to all the republicans. I have not heard a reporter ask any of the democrats about the totally un-ethical Bill Clinton pardons.
They could totally ask any of the dems which Clinton cabinet official they would bring back.
Wolf got into trouble over this one with Dick Cheney also. Click on the question to see how that went over.
Mitt and Ann Romney's Relationship:
Has any other candidate been asked about this? Nope. It's OK to ask Mormons different questions.
Religion
- 1st Debate
- What do you say to bishops who deny Communion to elected officials who support abortion rights? (Not too bad, but gosh).
- Mike Allen
- Why are key tenets of your faith still misunderstood ? The tenets of every faith are misunderstood. Big deal. Don't ask a politician.
- How is your church so successful in getting its young people to follow its teachings? Ask the church dude. You don't really want to know.
- Brian Lamb
- Who was Brigham Young? Has Rudy had to tell about the Pope Pios the 3rd?
- Do you have an evangelical problem? Brian, do you have a stupid problem?
- Wolf Blitzer
- How do you deal with the fact that you are a Mormon? How do you deal with the fact that you are an idiot? How do you deal with the fact that your first name is "wolf"?
- Jay Leno
- Is their enough diversity within the Mormon Church ? Does Mike Huckabee get asked about Baptist in the South supporting slavery? The Mormon church did have racist policies more recently but it never supported slavery. That is part of the conflict it had in Missouri. Mitt Romney's dad was one of the few governors (especially Republican) who actually marched with Martin Luther King. Rudy hasn't been asked if the Catholic church has a molestation problem, but because Romney belongs to a religious minority, that isn't yet politically correct to defend, you can treat him different, and make him explain the stupid things his church has done, but you don't do the same to other candidates...
- Chris Wallace
- Are you a cultist? Chris, are you an ass?
Jun 2, 2007
Bill Keller on Mitt Romney
In the 1990s he served two years in federal prison.
On May 11th he sent an e-mail to 2.4 million e-mail subscribers that said, "If you vote for Mitt Romney, you are voting for Satan!"
Matt. 7: 16-20
- 20 Wherefore by their afruits ye shall know them.
I don't know much about Bill Keller, but I assume that he does not agree with the Jewish Religion. Is a vote for a Jew, also a vote for the devil?
American values are at the heart of America's historic rise to world leadership. These include, among others, respect for hard work, sacrifice, civility, love of family, respect for life, education and love of freedom. To remain a superpower in the world we must continuously and vigorously reaffirm these key components that have led to America's greatness as a country.
Governor Romney: "America cannot continue to lead the family of nations around the world if we suffer the collapse of the family here at home."
(UPI, February 26, 2005)
Governor Romney: "What is the culture of this country, what are our underpinnings? We respect hard work ... We are self reliant, we respect human life, we are a religious people... We are a purpose-driven people founded on the family unit. I think every child deserves to have a mother and a father."
(Union Leader, March 19, 2006)
Governor Romney: "Last year the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court struck a blow against the family, as I'm sure you know. The court forgot that marriage is first and foremost about nurturing and developing children. Its ruling meant that our society is supposed to be indifferent about whether children have a mother and a father."
(Boston Globe, March 2, 2005)
Governor Romney: "What is it about America's culture and values that makes us such a successful nation and society? Part of that is we love liberty, we love our country, we're patriotic," Romney said. "I believe it's also because we are a people who love God and look for a purpose greater than ourselves in life."
(Boston Globe, May 18, 2006)
(Boston Globe, Op-Ed, July 26, 2005)
Governor Mitt Romney and Values
Major Speeches
- 09-22-2006; Values Voter Summit 2006, Washington, DC, Democracy in action transcript
- 10-05-2006; Governor (MA) Mitt Romney: Liberty Sunday Address
Quotes from Governor Mitt Romney on values.
"America is under attack from almost every direction. We have been attacked by murderous terrorists here in this great city. Our employers and jobs are threatened by low-cost, highly skilled labor from abroad. American values are under attack from within."
"American values are at the heart of America's historic rise to world leadership. These include, among others, respect for hard work, sacrifice, civility, love of family, respect for life, education and love of freedom." - Mitt Romney
2006
- "Well, I think people in this country want a person of faith to lead them as their governor, as their senator, as their president. I don't think most people care what brand of faith they have. And I don't believe that that's been an issue for me in my race for governor. It wasn't an issue, I believe, serious, for John Kennedy when he ran for president. People said oh, gosh, Ronald Reagan, he's been an actor who's been divorced, you can't elect him. Those things, I think, get swept away as people get to know the individual, understand their character, their vision, their values, and I think that's true regardless of a person's faith if they are a faithful person."
- Governor Mitt Romney, 02-27-2006 Interview with CHRIS WALLACE on FNS
- "Now some people say wait, when you talk about culture, Governor, that's not of the same order of magnitude as the things you just mentioned: jihadists and the emergence of Asia, spending too much money, using too much oil. And I disagree. There was a book written some years ago by a fellow named David Landis; he's a Harvard professor. The book was given to me. It's called The Wealth and Poverty of Nations. The jacket cover included an endorsement by John Kenneth Galbraith. I said, oh boy, this is going to be some liberal diatribe. I read through it and found it pretty scholarly. And after about 500 pages, he concludes with roughly these words: If anything can be learned from the history of economic development in the world, it is this--culture makes all the difference."
- Governor Mitt Romney, Values Voter Summit 2006, Washington, DC, 09-22-2006
- "Now when I say foundation--we use those words frequently--when I say foundation I want to underscore the fact that a foundation is essential for something to stand. Our society stands on the basis of the family unit."
- Governor Mitt Romney, Values Voter Summit 2006, Washington, DC, 09-22-2006
- "But today there are some people who are trying to establish one religion: the religion of secularism. They not only reject traditional values, they reject the values of our founders and they cast aside the wisdom of the ages."
- Governor (MA) Mitt Romney: Liberty Sunday Address, 10-05-2006
- "Massachusetts is on the frontline of marriage, but unless we adopt a federal amendment to protect marriage, what's happening here will unquestionably enter every other state. This spreading secular religion -- and its substitute values -- cannot be allowed to weaken the foundation of the family, or the faith of our fathers who "more than life, their country loved."
- Governor (MA) Mitt Romney: Liberty Sunday Address, 10-05-2006
2005
- "And I thought about what is it that brings the culture of the United States in such relief that it lifts America. Well we're a people that's used to hard work. We're a people who believe in a Creator or if not we believe in a purpose greater than ourselves, in purpose-driven lives as Rick Warren has pointed out. We're a people who are self-reliant and independent. We're a people who take care of those who are truely in need. We're a people also who fundamentally respect the value of human life. and at the foundation of our society is of course the familiy. The familiy has always been the structure from which we pass along our values and ideals to the next generation."
- Governor Mitt Romney, 06-03-2005 NH Federation of Republican Women's Lilac Dinner
- "It's an honor to be here with you, to fight together for the things we believe in, to fight for Republican values. Let's do it again and again and again. Thank you so much."
- Governor Mitt Romney, 06-03-2005 NH Federation of Republican Women's Lilac Dinner
- "We've got a liberal activist court . . . and I have now seen firsthand the perils of a court that decides to substitute its values for that of the founders."
- Governor Mitt Romney, 12-31-2005, JAMES TARANTO, OpinionJournal.com
2004
There's one more thing I've seen in the people who swim in the deep waters of life. They don't fashion their values and principles to suit their self-interest; they live instead by enduring principles that are fundamental to society and to successful, great lives. I learned important lessons about those principles from some of the Olympians I saw in Salt Lake City, like bobsledder Vonetta Flowers.
Vonetta was brakeman on USA sled two. All the attention, however, was on sled one, the sled that had taken the World Cup and was a lock for the Olympic Gold. But just before the Olympics, the pilot of sled one dropped her partner and invited Vonetta Flowers to join her.
Vonetta had a tough decision. On sled one, she'd get a gold medal for sure – the first Olympic gold to be won by an African American in the Olympic Winter Games. Those of us rooting for US metals hoped she would jump to sled one. She didn't. She decided that friendship and loyalty to her longtime teammate on sled two was more important than winning the gold.
Of course, sled one did well. But when sled two beat them all, coming in first, the crowd went nuts. And tears dripped off Vonetta's cheeks. Friendship and loyalty above gold.
- Governor Mitt Romney, 05-23-2004, COMMENCEMENT ADDRESS TO THE STUDENTS OF SUFFOLK UNIVERSITY
2003
- "With the help of the council members, my Administration will work hard to foster a culture of inclusion that values diversity. We want Massachusetts to be recognized as a great place for people from all backgrounds to work and raise a family."
- Governor Mitt Romney, 09-26-2003 Press Release
- "In his more than 30 years of service to the Commonwealth both by leadership and by example, Judge Daher has compiled a track record of unblemished integrity and unflinching dedication to the values of honest and ethical government,"
- Governor Mitt Romney, 10-14-2003 Press Release
- "With the help of the council members, my Administration will work hard to foster a culture of inclusion that values diversity. We want Massachusetts to be recognized as a great place for people from all backgrounds to work and raise a family."
- Governor Mitt Romney, 09-26-2003 Press Release
- "I know as well that what you are doing here has impact well beyond my parochial interests in Massachusetts. I think we can all appreciate the broader context of what's involved. On a global basis, I'm convinced that you are seeing - as some have indicated in some recent journals and books -- the civilizations of the world weighing the values, which will be followed by their civilizations and by their peoples. On the one hand, we have the model of the US and other nations of the west -- which is model based upon individual entrepreneurship and individual decision-making and democracy. Everything related to the individual and the innovation and creativity of the individual, and saying the individual given full freedoms and incentives and opportunities for innovation, will create enormous innovation and potential for other people to live and grow from, and that this is the best way for building a civilization and an economy. There are other civilizations in our word that are convinced, that no, that's not the right model. That in fact you are much better under a more authoritarian structure where collectivity of purpose is defined as the objective and that this idea of individuality and innovation by individuals is actually quite counterproductive. And there is a debate between these differing views in the civilizations of the world today."
- Governor Mitt Romney, 05-13-2003 , Deshpande Center IdeaStream Symposium
2002
- "My dad is someone who I've subconsciously patterned my life after. He was someone who had a very strong sense of public service, which is something that, as I've gotten a little older, seems to have sprung up in me as well."
- Governor Mitt Romney, Quoted in Harvard Law Bulletin, Spring/02 Mar 1, 2002
Quotes from other's on Governor Mitt Romney's Values:
- "I was particularly impressed that when the Governor called me he did not ask for political affiliation or suggest an agenda to pursue with regard to the University. He just said he wanted an established academic on the board that would follow the values and ideals that are consistent with the reputation of UMass."
- Dr. John DiBiaggio, former president of Tufts University, 10-04-2003 Press Release
2001
- "With 15 years of venture capital under my belt, I'm a convert to the power of persistence, ambition, hard work, and foresight. But I'm also convinced that when it comes to making money or earning fame, more than a fair amount of serendipity is at play. There is, however, a brighter way. If you give yourself for great things, you will not be subject to serendipity. Giving your life for great things generates as much satisfaction in the effort as it does in the achievement."
- Governor Mitt Romney, Commencement Speech, Westminster College, UT Jun 2, 2001
- "Giving yourself to great things is the only sure path for successful living. I have spoken of some of those choices. To them I might add family and children, faith, scholarship, exploration, healing, teaching, athletics, and creation."
- Governor Mitt Romney, Commencement Speech, Westminster College, UT Jun 2, 2001
Quotes from Governor Mitt Romney on other's Values:
- "In his more than 30 years of service to the Commonwealth both by leadership and by example, Judge Daher has compiled a track record of unblemished integrity and unflinching dedication to the values of honest and ethical government. Judge Daher's courage, his willingness to stand up and speak out about injustice, to cross the political power structure and to take on the insiders make him the best possible choice for this important position."
- Governor Mitt Romney, 10-14-2003 Press Release
Schools can teach family values, not religion or prayer. (Aug 1994)
Other
Three years ago, with the 2002 Winter Olympics mired in controversy and facing serious financial crisis, Mitt was asked to become President and CEO of the Salt Lake Organizing Committee. Although the challenge seemed daunting, he was compelled to assume the task by both the urgings of his wife, Ann, and by the memory of his father, George Romney, who had been a successful businessman, four-term Michigan Governor and tireless advocate of volunteerism.
In his three years in Salt Lake, Mitt erased a $360 million operating deficit, organized 23,000 volunteers, galvanized community spirit, oversaw an unprecedented security mobilization to ensure public safety and led one of the most successful Olympics in our country's history.
Source: Campaign web site, Romney2002.org Mar 20, 2002
http://reason4romney.blogspot.com/search/label/Values
Guest host Judy Woodruff: …Religion really played a role sense JFK, do you think it would play a role if you ran?
Mitt Romney: Oh, I think initially. Some people would say, Gosh, I don't know much about your faith, tell me about it. And I'd probably outline the fundamentals. I'm a religious person. I believe that Jesus Christ is my Savior. But then as you get into the details of doctrines I'd probably say look time out, let's focus on the values that we share. And fundamentally the values of my faith are very much like the values of other Judeo-Christian tradition values. And I think Americans want to have a leader who is a person of faith, but their not going to get terribly involved in the differences of doctrine, as long as the values we share are common.
American values are at the heart of America's historic rise to world leadership. These include, among others, respect for hard work, sacrifice, civility, love of family respect for life, education and love of freedom. To remain a superpower in the world we must continuously and vigorously reaffirm these key components that have led to America's greatness as a country.
America's values have change.
Romney in the Value News
- Feb 10, 2007; Romney Says He'll Lead With Values
May 10, 2007
What other presidential candidate has been asked this question?
"When asked whether they broke the strict church rule against premarital sex, Romney says,..."
The problem with the main stream media is not that they are left, or right, but that they are so incredibly stupid. How exactly, without meaning to get into doctrine, is the LDS religion any more "strict" with regard to premarital sex than any other religion?
No presidential candidate until now, as far as I know, has been asked this question. The main stream media no longer deserves to be taken seriously.
I remember when people looked down on MTV for asking if Bill Clinton wore boxers or briefs...
Most people have sex before they are married. This question is a way for the MSM to point out that Mitt Romney is different than most people. "He is not like you and me", they point out as often as they can. He is different. He is from a minority. And people from this minority happen to be on the wrong side of the political isle, according to the MSM.
Until the MSM starts treating ALL minorities with as much respect, I am going to keep calling them bigots.
Listening to Rush today he was discussing Al Sharpton, and Romney, and discussing how people are sissies today.
U2 said:
And you can dream - so dream out loud
You know that your time is coming round
So don't let the bastards grind you down
You shouldn't let bigotry drag you down. You should be tough. You shouldn't carry around grudges. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't fight for equality.
The more you learn about liberals, and the media, the more you learn they don't care at all about equality.
For instance, at work, I was listening to a co-worker saying how he hates all organized religion. Could a Christian at work get away with saying he hates atheist? Could Al Sharpton get away with being a bigot, and a hypocrite? Could the media treat someone from a religious minority differently?
No. Yes. Yes, and Yes.
~ Mike